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| Multi point focusing modes | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 06:05 | 1st Post |
I need some help! Not sure if this is a Fuji issue and I should be asking this on their site, but since I know you guys better, you will probably be more considerate in your assistance. Have I got something wrong with the notion of using multipoint focus modes? Here's an example..... There is bird eating on my lawn ....a few inches in front of it is a leaf on the grass, a few inches behind it, is a stick on the grass. If I frame the bird up with the centre spot on the bird and half depress the shutter, several lights on the 9spot matrix light up. These individually cover the stick, the leaf and the bird. If I take the photo and use the zoom in on focus point function....it's not on the bird! It's not on ANY of these 3 highlighted points, but somewhere inbetweeen. Is the camera using the objects to determine dof and 'choosing' its focal point to approximately cover them all?? More worrying....if I focus on a similar group, sometime the centre light doesn't illuminate with the others. It's as if the camera has decided what IT thinks is the important focal point from the 9 options. Am I using this metering mode incorrectly? If I switch to single spot focusing the centre spot is the one it zooms into....it works. But with multispot modes the camera seems to decide what it thinks is important. Photographing birds sat in tree branches is a nightmare! And don't get me started trying to use it in AFC mode with mult point focusing.....it's all over the place. I can understand how a bird in flight where the bird was the only object against a clear sky would work. But even then, what happens if the centre spot on the birds head doesn't illuminate and the ones on the edge of the wings ( max contrast) do light up? The head won't be in focus???? Help!  
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 06:20 | 2nd Post |
| I would say yes, the multi point metering is trying it's (dumb) best to balance the focus points it's marking up for the prevailing settings and image. I rarely move away from single point focus, on the rare occasions I have an AF lens mounted. My D3300 does something similar, and pops the flash up for good measure!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 06:54 | 3rd Post |
Robert wrote:I would say yes, the multi point metering is trying it's (dumb) best to balance the focus points it's marking up for the prevailing settings and image. And yet many wildlife photographers use the multipoint focusing modes. I've just read Fuji's special focusing site and it doesn't answer my question. It says that in the zone mode you have to first get the subject in the centre of the zone. Then as long as the subject remains in the zone ar3a selected, it will keep the focus lock. But my problem is getting the cameras zone system sensors to concentrate on the centre spot and ignore the other interesting items in its eyeline!! Just tried to photograph a rook in the walnut tree outside the window. The zone system was lit up like a Christmas's tree. But would it focus on the rooks beak? No. Switch to single spot.....locked on immediately. I just don't see how you can get sharp focus where YOU want it using zones????
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 06:58 | 4th Post |
| All 3 batteries now flat! Well I have taken 250 shots on the camera!!!!! Off to paint the pergoda now it's stopped snowing....do something constructive as opposed to irritational!! 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 08:17 | 5th Post |
| What you really need is a D500. End of problem. And that will take a heck of a lot more than 83.33333333333333 shots per battery! 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 08:47 | 6th Post |
Robert wrote:What you really need is a D500. You are suggesting that this multipoint focusing issue is unique to Fuji. If it is, then I agree the Fuji has to go. But in fairness to the camera, I need to know if Nikon's when used in the equivalent mode are any different.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 10:49 | 7th Post |
| Does the Fuji not have single point focus? I would have though the camera is functioning as expected, averaging the focus between the variously selected points and adding a little calculation of it's own? Trouble is the camera is doing the selecting. You need a single point, on the beak or the eye. This is why I avoid multi point focus. I put up with it on the D3300 because it's rare that I take a critical photo with that camera, it hardly ever goes off fully auto P&S.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 11:53 | 8th Post |
Robert wrote:Does the Fuji not have single point focus? Yes it's got single point....I use it most of the time. What I am trying to do is establish the merit of the zone focusingmode...because many swear by it for capturing moving subjects. I am also trying to establish if the camera is functioning properly! I cannot for the life of me understand why, if it is working as design, it refuses to use the centre square. It rarely lights. Just centred up a black bird on lawn....all 3 bottom squares below the bird light up?? Take the shot ....and surprise surprise the grass in front of the bird where the 3 squares were, is sharp....the bird isn't!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 12:26 | 9th Post |
| Eric, The multi-point AF stuff is confusing and peverse. I tend to simplify and go to single ot AF for most stuff. The advent of the joystick for AF point moving makes this much easier. I use in Nikon the Dynamic AF 51 points mode for flamenco and it is 90% effective. Likewise with Fuji I have it set to use mode2 of the dunamic. I think there are several different modes and the one you need to uses varies by subject movement speed. It is not a Fuji thing but the Nikon sustm seems to work better for wildlife. I need to test the Fuji more for wildlife.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 14:54 | 10th Post |
jk wrote:Eric, This is an exercise in understanding how different modes MIGHT help. I have been a committed single spot user for many years for EVERYTHING but was merely trying to see if I was missing something with all these modes. My problem is not so much when to use it as....how can you possibly get accurate focus from zone focusing? Here's an example. No movement of subject or camera to confuse the system. I spread a range of food on the lawn for various birds. Before they arrived I framed up with the 'fat ball' in the centre of the screen and the focusing 9x9 zone as shown in this picture. Press the shutter and the 3 bottom squares light up green! What's wrong with the middle square that's positioned right over the main object? Why didn't that light up AS WELL or with the two either side of it? No surprise that when I reviewed the image....the grass in front of the fatball, where the 3green squares were, is sharp. The target isn't! If this is how zone facing works, choosing its own focusing points, how can you hope to get selected areas eg head, of a flying bird sharp? This system could focus on a wing. I noticed even with waders, using this zone focusing, the camera was more interested in the birds legs that the head, where I aimed the focus. I had to go back to single spot focus to get the camera to concentrate on what I wanted to be the focal point. I am at a loss as to how you can dictate what's in focus using this system? Or is my camera screwed? Attachment: 1EFEEABB-E54E-4881-9E0F-C29FB5A01D2B.jpeg (Downloaded 14 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 14:55 | 11th Post |
| Focus is in front of target where green squares highlighted. Attachment: 99AB3A7B-48C2-4069-8997-C8F120310288.jpeg (Downloaded 14 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 15:03 | 12th Post |
| I should add that I did try other targets with greater contrast eg branches against the sky. It was impossible to get the camera to concentrate on the centre branch...it chose at random surrounding branches rather than the centre one. ????? Would really like to know when this zone marking comes into its own. Maybe when you are not bothered about sharp focus in a key area and happy with approximate focus???
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 15:47 | 13th Post |
| I think you need to choose a different size of AF point. You need to dump out all your AF settings so I can understand them. Description of what you have set is not the same as what is actually set in the camera. Also a complete RESET might be a winner.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 16:36 | 14th Post |
jk wrote:I think you need to choose a different size of AF point. Do you mean the subject size is too small for the sensors to lock onto? Have done reset...no change.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Feb 27th, 2018 18:10 | 15th Post |
Eric wrote:jk wrote: That doesn't make sense, whatever the camera has locked onto is way smaller than the target, ie. it can't be too small a target. The (AF) sensor locks onto tiny detail rather than large targets. What I did with the D500 was follow a bird, when the bird was on the centre AF square, (or whichever was active by moving the selection with the joystick), half press shutter or press the AF lock, then the camera would follow the bird around wherever it went in the general focus area. Even if other birds came within the focus area, it stayed locked on to the original bird, and that was through double glazing and at about 50 yards. I don't know what focus 'mode' that was, I just picked up the camera, removed the silly motor drive thing from underneath and used it as was with 70-200, f2.8 and a 300, f2.8. By locked on, I mean wherever the bird was in the general focus area, the nearest AF square would illuminate. Bear in mind this was two years ago, If I got a detail wrong don't get cross!!! OK, I just tried this with the D3 and it behaves exactly like I described, half press on the subject, then the active square stays locked on the target within the focus sensor area. I tried it with my D3300 and that does exactly the same. That is using '3D tracking, 11 points'. It doesn't matter where the initial active focus point is, need not be centre, you can make the active sensor point from any available. Once locked on it follows the target (subject). With the fully auto mode the D3300 hadn't a clue what I wanted and flickered around the AF area locking onto anything which took it's fancy. I usually find If I am trying to photograph something close, like the EN-EL batteries, where I want some detail sharp, I have to repeatedly half press the shutter button until it eventually locks onto the bit I want. For a static subject I would still use single point AF; 3D tracking is for following a moving subject. I believe on the latest bodies you can even refine the settings for smooth, predictable motion, like something which goes in straight lines or curves, or erratic, butterfly movement. Silly as this sounds, Manual Focus and pre-setting on a fixed blade of grass, wait until the bird is in the right position, might be better for an (almost) stationary subject. This is the technique I use for motor racing, I focus on a point on the track, with the 300mm f2.8 (MF) then when the car is almost on the marker I rattle off 4 or 5 exposures, usually a couple are right on the nose, then I get to choose the exact focus point I want when I get home. I dump the others. From what I have read, even when you HAVE mastered the AF system and got it doing what YOU want, getting that perfect eye reflection or feather detail, can mean dumping many pretty good images. But you ain't in that ballpark yet!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 04:04 | 16th Post |
| Need those AF settings....
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 04:06 | 17th Post |
| Robert the AF sensors in mirrorless is totally different to DSLR system. The AF is on sensor and provides both CD and PD autofocus rather that PD only as in DSLR. http://www.sansmirror.com/articles/autofocus-systems.html We really need to be very very careful when we move between thse cameras. Behaviours need o be adjusted.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Iain: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 05:54 | 18th Post |
| Most systems seem to focus on the nearest point when in zone mode and by the look of your pic Eric thats what the Fuji has done here.
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 07:20 | 19th Post |
jk wrote:We really need to be very very careful when we move between thse cameras. Which is why I stick with one make, that's challenge enough for me!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 11:20 | 20th Post |
Robert wrote: jk wrote: The latest models have so many features it is difficult as well.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 11:43 | 21st Post |
| Well good news, or perhaps not? The cameras zone system has at last locked onto the fat balls ..........trouble is .....the centre spot was on the fieldfare. Attachment: AEA92AEE-71A0-4F71-871F-81A1C7A2F991.jpeg (Downloaded 6 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 11:55 | 22nd Post |
| Back to good old single spot focusing.... Attachment: 5760E351-B3FF-4ACF-BA79-B0538A992AF2.jpeg (Downloaded 6 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 11:56 | 23rd Post |
| Back to good old single point focus....
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 13:57 | 24th Post |
No problem with single spot focus.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 14:09 | 25th Post |
| Is that the d850 Jonathan?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 14:19 | 26th Post |
Eric wrote:Well good news, or perhaps not? The Fieldfare looks jarred off too!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 14:20 | 27th Post |
Eric wrote:Back to good old single spot focusing.... I won't say it!!! Nice picture Eric.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 14:24 | 28th Post |
jk wrote:Robert wrote:jk wrote: That's not a problem, my D3 is lovely, the only thing I desire is is the update, D3S with the self cleaning sensor. Oh, and an 8mm circular fisheye lens, the Sigma seems favourite. As you may remember I don't do mega high resolution, waste of time and money in my opinion, when 99.9999 % of my images are displayed either on computer screen or maybe iPad/iPhone. 12Mp are more than I need, much of that is thrown away too.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 16:10 | 29th Post |
Eric wrote:Is that the d850 Jonathan? No Fuji XT2 with 80mm macro at ISO3200. Yes 3200!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| This is topic ID = 1515 | ||
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