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| Basic Monitor CalibrationGetting the best from what you have | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by Robert: Sun Jul 10th, 2016 06:14 | 1st Post |
| I have a variety of monitors, all modern flat screen now, my last La-Ci CRT screen went pop some years ago. I usually have at least two monitors on my main workstation. Getting them to be even similar is always a challenge and I have more or less given up on the idea. I leave the differences to remind me that anyone viewing my images will be doing so on a different monitor anyway so there is little I can do about that. However, my current main LED monitor seems very bright in comparison with the second (LCD) monitor and seems to lack contrast at the bright end. I have checked several greyscale calibration charts and it seems to lack definition of the last three white end graduations. I found a site this morning which has some interesting options for checking screens which I found useful. http://uofgts.com/PS-P2Site/Calibration.html This page is different from any I have seen before and provides a good quick way to assess your screen: https://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/monitor_sensitivity.html I can't define the last four at bottom row or the last three on the second row, all the others I can see the two shades in each box. Would be interested to hear if my experience is typical?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jul 10th, 2016 09:42 | 2nd Post |
| Robert, you need to try and find either an ColorMunki, Eye1 or a Spyder 3,4,5 units. I have the software for Pantone/Datacolor Spyder 3, so if you can get the hardware then I can get you the software.  On ebay in USA there are units for sale for £30+ £15 P&P. Otherwise keep checking on ebay.co.uk I bought my unit in Uk brand new and it cost £350 and it also included the printer calibration hardware and software. Trying to do monitor calibration by eye is not recommended.
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| Posted by jk: Sun Jul 10th, 2016 09:54 | 3rd Post |
| Here you go. This looks good. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-Rite-ColorMunki-Display-LCD-Monitor-Colour-Calibrator-CMUNDIS-New-UK-Stock-/131591109036?hash=item1ea370f9ac:g:xbwAAOSwEgVWTmUh
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Jul 10th, 2016 11:17 | 4th Post |
| I suppose it depends on how much printing you intend to do. I did the Spyder calibration bit. Then discovered the ambient lighting in the room and time of day etc influenced screen appearance to the point that you are 'supposed' to have different profiles to suit. I ended up with spring morning, spring afternoon, winter morning, winter afternoon...and an evening profile. I was continually forgetting to reset the screen to match the time of day/ year...never got any complaints from my customers that their printing was off-colour. So I sold the Spyder. Modern quality monitors are pretty accurate out of the box.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Sun Jul 10th, 2016 15:52 | 5th Post |
| I have a Spyder somewhere... Will have a hunt, software may be an issue, OS 10.12... Also this is an LED monitor not LCD. My Spyder may be too old. The latest Mac OS's have very dumbed down monitor calibration software, but in reality the hardware adjustments seem to be more important, brightness and contrast. I think I have them set to their optimal now but the white end is not as good as I would like it. I ain't getting a £1,200 monitor just to fix that!!! 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jul 10th, 2016 16:26 | 6th Post |
Robert wrote:I have a Spyder somewhere... If you find it the Spyder then find out the version and PM me.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Gilbert Sandberg: Mon Jul 11th, 2016 06:59 | 7th Post |
| Robert, If in doubt, just get yourself a new Datacolor Spyder, on the mainland prices vary from E 100 to E 150. (Express or Pro, version 5). The cost is peanuts, compared to a nice piece of Nikon glass... A Spyder unit can be used on multiple systems/monitors. Regards, Gilbert
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Jul 11th, 2016 16:27 | 8th Post |
Thanks Gilbert, sound advice I think.  I have found my 'Spyder', in fact it's a LaCie "Blue Eye" The software seems not to be available anymore. It's marked on the back, Sequel Imaging C4U01 S/N 00525xxx. I somehow think it's useless. From what I have read the LED screens need a different method of adjusting the tones, apparently LED screens are different in the way they create the visual display from CRT and LCD screens, which is why I think Gilbert may have a good point. I also need something with up to date Mac OS compatibility.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Jul 11th, 2016 18:13 | 9th Post |
| JK, do you have any experience with this software? http://displaycal.net I ask because it's open source and may have attracted your attention, works on Mac, PC and Linux. It also claims compatibility with the La-Cie Blue Eye, which, although dated may be all I need to get the job done.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jul 11th, 2016 18:44 | 10th Post |
| Have seen it mentioned but never used it. It doesnt support my Spyder 3 (I bet it does really, as the 3, 4, 5 models are very similar).
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Jul 12th, 2016 01:21 | 11th Post |
jk wrote:Have seen it mentioned but never used it. Yes it does! I will d/l it and give it a whirl. Attachment: Screen Shot 2016-07-12 at 06.19.25.jpg (Downloaded 21 times)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Tue Jul 12th, 2016 07:27 | 12th Post |
| Oh I see my Spyder 3 is on the list. It wasnt supported on the orginal page I looked at. I will maybe try a download.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Tue Jul 12th, 2016 07:28 | 13th Post |
Eric wrote: I suppose it depends on how much printing you intend to do. Close the curtains. It concentrates the mind and also removes stray light.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Jul 12th, 2016 15:15 | 14th Post |
| I have no intention of printing any images except perhaps very rarely. The reason I want to calibrate my screen is to allow me to see the whole range of tones and to see the correct colours. The software I mentioned above doesn't seem to recognise my La-Cie sensor. So I may have a look at the basic Spyder 5 offering. From what I can gather the different levels of product only relate to the software, not the sensor, which is the same on all the Spyder 5 products. The simplest version will do all I need I think. The difference with the latest version 5 apparently is that the sensor is more accurate (sensitive?) in the darker tones, than the previous versions.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Tue Jul 12th, 2016 17:55 | 15th Post |
| I have been very happy with the Spyder 3 product. I will be interested to hear how you get on with the Spyder5.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Jul 13th, 2016 16:42 | 16th Post |
jk wrote:Eric wrote:The viewers of my printed images were never told to sit in a specific lighting condition for correct rendition of the final print....so why should I?I suppose it depends on how much printing you intend to do.  The problem with all this calibration lark is that unless everyone who receives your images has a similarly calibrated monitor, iPad, laptop or tv, they will ALL see something different to your screen. I've seen quite a few renditions of my artwork on printers and publishers screens while proof reading prior to going to press. In the last 10 years, I've never said "hold the press that doesn't look right!", due to colour or contrast irregularities. Forgive me for being a tad dismissive but unless the monitor you have is waaaaay out of calibration, I think it's straining at gnats. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Jul 13th, 2016 17:29 | 17th Post |
| For iPads, iMacs and Mac Laptops I don't worry, in my experience they are all pretty well the same calibration but the plethora of monitors out there are all different. Just walk into PC World and see that almost every computer with a separate screen will be a different shade of blue, or what ever is the standard desktop hue of the day. I accept that everyone will see my images according to their calibration, or lack of it, all I can do is try to provide a 'correct' image as I see it. I seem to remember you remarked about one of my images here being 'off' a while back, can't remember the details but if my monitor is calibrated to standard colours and the white and black tones are clearly distinguishable, which they aren't at the moment, if anybody is viewing my images and not seeing what I intended, I can't do any more. When I set the white point, I expect any shades of light grey to be light grey on my monitor but in practice I don't see any difference until it's about 8% grey, it's only then I can see any difference in tone, that's almost 10%; to me that's like the high end of the sound spectrum missing in a piece of music. With sound that can be the critical bit, with 'proper' music anyway. It could make a cloud, a wedding dress or a shirt appear entirely white, when in fact there are several % of light grey tones in the image. That is what I am seeking. At present I have the equivalent of a violin with the thin strings missing!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu Jul 14th, 2016 05:28 | 18th Post |
Eric wrote: jk wrote: I think that the need to calibrate the screen is very marginal now. I have been calibrating my screens for a while now (about 14 years). I had one of the original Spyders and that worked well for CRT and TFTs. I Use that original Spyder to calibrate my Dell U2407HM (24" screen - TFT monitor) when I got it back in 2007. I have upgraded to a pair of Dell U2713HM (30" screen - LED monitor) theya re both calibrated with the Spyder 3 and are very good they match the UM2407 for colour rendering. I was sent an offer to upgrade to the Spyder 5 as the Spyder 3/4 software is no longer supported. There was all sort of BS marketing hype about the Spyder 5 software being better and supported. The old software still runs on the latest version of Mac OSX 10.11.5 and calibrates bot screens. The Spyder 3/4/5 can calibrate TFT and LED monitors. The Spyder 3 can also calibrate twin monitor systems even though Datacolor say it cant!! I cant see any reason to upgrade to a Spyder 5. Maybe if the Spyder 4 software refuses to work on a futre version of MacOS then I will upgrade. The Spyder 3 (as does the Spyder 5) has a holder for the spectrophotometer so it adjusts the calibration if the light changes. I have a set of curtains I draw if the light changes or is too bright in the room if I am editing. I dont print very often these days as most requests for print are for 50x40" prints or larger!! I am certainly not going to buy a printer that can do 40" wide prints. Prints on glossy paper should look similar (to a calibrated monitor) if the printer is well profiled but on other paper types it wil be 'different' due to the paper/canvas finish. My profiles from the Spyder 3 need little or no adjustment year on year. I used to test monthly now I do it yearly. CRTs do drift so I recommend that unless you must have one that you invest in a LED monitor. Like Eric says most people's screens on their PCs are adjusted so badly as people mess with them unecessarily adjusting to make a colour match (by eye) what they think it should be!!!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Jul 14th, 2016 07:46 | 19th Post |
Robert wrote:
Some would say that's an improvement. I am always mystified when I see a violinist thrashing away with that singly inadequate bow. A fretsaw would be through it in seconds.  I use Autocolour in Photoshop as my image reality check. Click that button AFTER doing your adjustments. If the image changes ......one of you is wrong!!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Thu Jul 14th, 2016 08:33 | 20th Post |
Eric. Shall we go and find some stray cats for Robert.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Jul 14th, 2016 14:41 | 21st Post |
jk wrote:Not sure he would be able to keep them hanging in front of the monitor....or get them to measure screen colour? Better he sticks with a Spyder.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Jul 14th, 2016 15:44 | 22nd Post |
| I can always rely on you guys for a reality check!
____________________ Robert. |
| This is topic ID = 1344 | ||
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