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| Moderated by: chrisbet, | ||
| Author | Post | |||||||||
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Iain
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Which to go for D610 or D800 s/h I have the D7200 for wildlife so this would be for landscapes and portraits. |
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amazing50
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Checked eBay and there isn't too much of a price diference. I have a D610, no serious complaints, but 50% more pixles would make it tempting. |
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jk
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I have D600 and D800. I prefer the D600 for general use but the D800 has the pro accessory sockets that fit all my attachments. The D600/610 has a usb-like connector instead. :-( If you need the MP then the D800 is very good. |
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Eric
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Was there a reason you excluded the D750 from your choice? |
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Iain
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I'm buying secondhand so the D750 is out of my price range unfortunately |
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jk
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Eric, I would be interested in a D750 but I dont know what advantages it has over my D600. I dont do video so all the sexy video bits are wasted on me. Is a D750 that much better than a D610? |
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amazing50
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The D750 has only incramental improvements over the D610. |
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jk
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The one thing that it has that I fancy is the Highlight metering which I think will be useful for my flamenco shooting. I cant seem to find what the buffer size is for RAW images for the D750 v. D618 v. D810. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:Eric, I would be interested in a D750 but I dont know what advantages it has over my D600. I dont do video so all the sexy video bits are wasted on me. Don't know ...it depends what floats your boat. The D750 is lighter, has more battery life, has Expeed 4, 51x focus points, inbuilt wifi, a tilting LCD ...and a handgrip that's deeper and better imho than all other Nikon grips. I wasn't suggesting it was an overal better option, just curious why Iain had discounted it. |
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Iain
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The D750 would have been my first chose if I'd been able to afford it. |
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jk
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I been thinking about this question since it was posted as it has been at the back of my mind for a while that my D3 cameras need replacing. OK so what is the matter with the D3 and D3S that I have? Nothing except that at times I find that I would like more MPs. But I have a D600 that has 24MP and a D800 with 36MP. So what is the matter with these? Nothing! OK so what is the problem? The D3/D3S has too few MP, the D600 is great for most of my uses but occasionally it stumbles under low light with its slower AF speed. But what about the D800, well therein lies the problem. Easy answer is replace the D3 with a D800/810. Well yes but for many occasions I find 36MP to be too much, so get a D610. Yes but the D600/610 has a different set of accessories to the D3/D800/D810 in that it uses a strange USB-like conector while the D3/D810/D800 use my tried and tested 10pin connector that I have used for (decades) years! So what is in a connector...... Lots! I want a D760 or like with 24-30MP but with all the features of the D810 especially the 10pin connector and Highlight metering option, EXCEPT I want the twin SD cards of the D600/750 not some stupid hybrid card dreamed up by a user of Betamax, sorry Betamax users! |
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Iain
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Not an easy thing to answer. I have a D800 on trial at the moment, my thinking is if I need the 36mp I've got itIf I don't I have the option of the 1.2 and 1.5 crop modes. I have a week to try it out, watch this place. I was and am still tempted with a D3 but the 12mp kind of put me off. Isn't it funny a handful of years ago we would have been quite happy with 12mp. |
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jk
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Iain wrote:Not an easy thing to answer.Strange thing is that in the studio I find 12MP of the D3 to be almost too much so I usually use some extra softening. |
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Iain
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Thats my main concern with the D800 for any sort of people photography it's going to show all the bumps and hollows that people don't want to see. |
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jk
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Iain wrote:Thats my main concern with the D800 for any sort of people photography it's going to show all the bumps and hollows that people don't want to see. Need to use Imagenomic Portrait Pro plugin to reduce the level of detail otherwise even the best model with the best skin looks like she has moon crater face! |
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Iain
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Yep, I've been playing about with it tonight and have had to inspect things because it's showing marks in things I am finding hard to see by eye. |
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jk
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Iain wrote:Yep, I've been playing about with it tonight and have had to inspect things because it's showing marks in things I am finding hard to see by eye.Sometimes that is good and other times bad but it means that you will need to check images magnified to see things! |
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Iain
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Either that or go for the D610 with a few less mp |
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jk
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Iain wrote:Either that or go for the D610 with a few less mp It is that 10pin connector thing which pushes me towards the D810 but I do like the D750. |
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Iain
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That would be my choice if I had the money. |
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Robert
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On the resolution thing, it depends entirely on how you intend to use your images. If you intend to print them larger than A2 then yes you may need one of these very high resolution bodies* but if like me you only plan to use the images at up to 1024 pixels on the long side (for display on a computer monitor) then even at a lowly? 12Mp, you have to down-sample x4 times to reduce the image from 4256 (D3) to 1024. The main advantage with the FX and more recent bodies is the vast improvement in high ISO and dynamic range. The larger sensor (and larger photosites) makes the camera more forgiving. The smaller photosites of the very high resolution bodies makes the camera less forgiving, demanding a sturdy tripod and the very best lenses to get the full benefit of the very high resolution. *I have printed larger than A2 from significantly cropped D200 10.5 Mp images and the flower detail and IQ held up very well and have been admired by critical viewers. (The generally accepted recommended viewing distance for pictures is 1.5X the diagonal) |
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Iain
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Part of my thinking on high res is it can be cropped and still have a good mp count. |
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Eric
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Iain wrote:Part of my thinking on high res is it can be cropped and still have a good mp count. I understand where you are coming from Iain but I have reservations about sectional enlargement of high pixel images. I know that sounds contradictory or a bit bizarre, as its billed as one of the advantages of having more pixels available. But in my experience the more pixels.. the more precise your technique needs to be. If the technique is slightly off, you merely amplify that lack of precision by cropping / sectional enlarging, despite the final image having apparent ample size. I struggled with this before the D3 came along. The 12mp on an FX sensor was/ is incredibly forgiving of technique. Whilst not advocating casual or sloppiness in photography it can be invaluable shotsaver when needing to shoot quickly. For this reason, I agree with Jonathan's view that 24mp on an FX sensor being as far as you should go .....for general photography. If you are doing studio or landscape with the camera tripod mounted then 36mp will be better. But handholding or shooting on the fly, I don't see the D800 giving any advantage over the D610 or D750....it could be worse! I have no experience of the 610 but I am sure it is comparable IQ wise to the 750. I do feel the 750 does give D3 comparable, if not better, images, yet still gives sufficient latitude in technique. My priority would be 750>610> 800 depending on budget. I might even slide D3 in before 800. |
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Robert
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Iain wrote:Part of my thinking on high res is it can be cropped and still have a good mp count. Yes, you will still have a fair Mp count Iain but will they be sharp enough? Mp's are no substitute for a good long lens, when they demand an ultra high definition lens to provide a sharp image to crop at that level, together with a solid tripod to avoid any shake. We have had this debate many times between using X2 converters and cropping, IMHO the cropping option you are contemplating suffers the same limitations, once you start magnifying the image significantly it becomes extremely hard to maintain image quality, no matter what route you take. There are no easy (or cheap?) options. How is the D800 shaping up, any positive results yet? Any pix to show, I would love to be proved wrong. |
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Iain
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Still not made my mind up yet. |
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Robert
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How are the cropped images from the loan D800? |
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Iain
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I'm getting better IQ from the D7200 Robert. |
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Robert
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Thats what I expected, without the overheads which the D800 brings... I bang on about this ultra high definition thing, requiring the best lenses, perfect (studio) technique and so on, without personal experience, more on gut feeling and technical knowledge/theory, it's good to back it up with some actual results. Thank you. |
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jk
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This sort of results from others confirms to me that a D750 is probably a good replacement for my D3. However I have been tempted a few times by low mileage D3X cameras as these have 24MP but the older EXPEED 3 chipset. The chipset that supports the sensor is as important as the sensor! The D750 has EXPEED 4 chipset, I believe. Another thing to check. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:This sort of results from others confirms to me that a D750 is probably a good replacement for my D3. Yes it does have Expeed 4...but I don't see it tearing up the Expeed 3 'record books'. The D750 has done nothing for my photography that the D3 couldn't do. It's just lighter, has a better handgrip and a useful tilting rear screen. |
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Eric
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Iain wrote:I'm getting better IQ from the D7200 Robert. What even tripod mounted D810? |
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Robert
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jk wrote:This sort of results from others confirms to me that a D750 is probably a good replacement for my D3. I would have thought the Expeed chipset simply matches the sensor demands? They must be matched both in generational development and performance terms, I would have thought, sort of 'hand in glove'. To me the more pertinent question would be does the D3X loose any of the D3's superb low light performance, if so, does slightly reduced low light performance matter for the anticipated application? Until now, for me low light hasn't been a great attraction, my primary objective has been to photograph plants and flowers in good or at least workable light, for the most part the D200 has been and still is superb for that. My interest in low light photography and my long term goal of having a full frame 35mm (FX) body to allow the full utilisation of my carefully chosen full frame lenses is what drives my choice of a D3, I also have severe budget constraints. As my prime focus on plant photography reduces, I am looking at a broader range of subjects and a more relaxed general interest in photography, experimenting with technique, both in capturing and processing images and having some fun along the way. |
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Robert
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Eric wrote:Iain wrote: My guess hand held or maybe lightweight tripod/monopod? |
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Eric
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Robert wrote:Eric wrote: Well it will be useful to have that confirmed. I would have thought there could be little doubt that the D800 has better resolving power than most other Nikon bodies but the realisation of its potential depends so much more on optimal technique. That being the case, it may not be the best choice for all but the purists. |
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jk
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Eric wrote:jk wrote:Lower noise and better high ISO noise reduction in v4 |
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Robert
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jk wrote: Lower noise and better high ISO noise reduction in v4 Yes, but my point is the sensor is probably different too, else they could have gone straight to 4 logic, instead of 3? I don't see the logic chips being developed in isolation from the sensor. The way I see it it's the sensors which are evolving, the logic chips are simply taking advantage of the greater (better?) output from the sensor. |
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jk
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The next generation or technology leap of sensors are the organic sensors. http://www.andrewgoodman.me/blog/photogrpahy/the-fujifilm-organic-sensor/ As you say the current technology is moving forward and the logic chips are devloped to keep up with these step advances. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:Eric wrote: Yes I read the claims but my point was that from a perceptual point of view, I don't find the improvement THAT significant such that it would sway me towards Expeed 4 if price were an issue. The whole D750 package is an improvement on previous like cameras and I am pleased I upgraded. I am not sure just Expeed 4 would have done it for me. |
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Eric
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Robert wrote:jk wrote:
These incremental improvements are not proportional to the typical price increments we have to pay for a 'new' body. It's one of the reasons I frequently skip a version or two. The launch prices are invariably about the same but by missing out a couple of stages you get a more noticeable step improvement for the price. It's a Yorkshire thing.  |
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Robert
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Thanks JK, wasn't aware of that. Very interesting, also: http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n130611.html Don't think that will be on my shopping list though. My Neanderthal instincts tell me the D3 will see my time out! Back to Topic.  Iain, can you confirm about the tripod question please. Are these slightly disappointing D800 images hand held or tripod mounted? |
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Eric
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jk wrote:The next generation or technology leap of sensors are the organic sensors. I have two concerns ...if the human eye can only see 14stops, what's the point of 29stops? And who will care about this level of fidelity? Future photographers will merely use their phone for 'good enough' snaps.  |
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Robert
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Eric wrote:These incremental improvements are not proportional to the typical price increments we have to pay for a 'new' body. It's one of the reasons I frequently skip a version or two. The launch prices are invariably about the same but by missing out a couple of stages you get a more noticeable step improvement for the price. It's a Yorkshire thing. Which is why I have never been tempted by the D300 and none of the other DX offerings have been developed along the lines I need, except for the D3100 which I use as a snapshot camera and almost lives in my tool box, hence the scratched lens and bumps and bruises! |
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Robert
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Eric wrote:jk wrote: A couple of other points too... There is no way of printing or viewing 29 stops on a monitor, also presumably the file sizes will be huge, I can only think the image will be compressed back to a viewable and manageable 14 stops after capture by software which can make use of the entire range and compress it to a visible and manageable range. |
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jk
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I think it will be a gradual addition of additional bit levels. The initial sensor will probably yield 16bit, then the next generation 20bit before the final release of 24bit. So in 10 years time we will have 100MP sensor @ 24bits!! File size ~1GB/image. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:I think it will be a gradual addition of additional bit levels. The initial sensor will probably yield 16bit, then the next generation 20bit before the final release of 24bit. In 10 years time my eyes will probably be even more unappreciative.  |
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Eric
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Robert wrote:Eric wrote: In fairness I think you missed a significant step not going to the D300. Not quite the magnitude of the D2X to D3 step change, but the D300 was in the same wave of urgent upgrades designed to win back users who were drifting towards Canon for better high ISO noise performance. And as such did make a significant step improvement worth buying into. I felt, and said so at the time on this forum, that the D300 would become a sort of classic, unlikely to be upgraded. It did of course get the S upgrade but as we know, no D400. I am sure the newer sensors in the D7xxx and D3xxx bodies are now superior to the D300 but don't have the solid body feel of the earlier Dxxx series bodies. So not the complete package for many. |
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jk
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I think the D7100/7200 have superior performance and handling compared to the D300S but nowhere near the build quality. The D300 build quality is close to a D3. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:I think the D7100/7200 have superior performance and handling compared to the D300S but nowhere near the build quality. The D300 build quality is close to a D3. That's the point I was trying to make. Robert has always valued the robust build of the D200. The D300/S has that too ....and would have been a significant sensor upgrade without a loss of build quality. |
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Robert
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I have started a new thread for the D200/D300 discussion, I feel I am being a distraction posting off topic in Iain's thread. Iain still hasn't confirmed if he has been using a tripod or hand holding the D800... |
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richw
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Eric wrote:jk wrote: It would open up the post processing potential incredibly, allowing detail tonal range to be compressed so that it can be seen. I imagine it would be very forgiving of incorrect exposures as well! |
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Iain
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Eric wrote:Robert wrote: It would in ideal conditions and on a sturdy tripod but using hand held or reacting quick to something the 36mp lets you down. I'm talking hand held. |
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Eric
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richw wrote:Eric wrote: Incorrect exposures? What are they? |
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Robert
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Eric wrote:
Lets not go there...  |
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Robert
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Iain wrote:I'm talking hand held. Thanks Iain. Seems real world photography benefits from bigger pixels rather than ultra high definition. |
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Iain
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Me Robert, I like things with two legs or four legs but not three.. |
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Robert
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I thought that would be the case Iain! Let us know what you decide, and lets see some pix... |
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Eric
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Iain wrote:Me Robert, I like things with two legs or four legs but not three.. Let alone with one. |
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| A small amount of member data is captured and held in an attempt to reduce spammers and to manage users. This site also uses cookies to ensure ease of use. In order to comply with new DPR regulations you are required to agree/disagree with this process. If you do not agree then please email the Admins using info@nikondsl.uk Thank you. |