 |
| |
| This site requires new users to accept that a small amount of member data is captured and held in an attempt to reduce spammers and to manage users. This site also uses cookies to ensure ease of use. In order to comply with new DPR regulations you are required to agree/disagree with this process. If you do not agree then please email the Admins using info@nikondslr.uk after requesting a new account. Thank you. |
| Moderated by: chrisbet, | ||
| Author | Post | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
novicius
|
So here are the 1st. pics.,... https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5236489889/first-look-at-nikon-d6?slide=6 Guess D3s/X are still my favorite camera`s. |
|||||||||
GeoffR
|
Built in Wi-Fi and an additional function button but otherwise very familiar to D4 and D5 users, I'd probably need a mortgage to buy one. |
|||||||||
jk
|
novicius wrote:So here are the 1st. pics.,...Yes a mint D3X would be a winner. |
|||||||||
Iain
|
Good tool for the pro's but you need to be making good money to justify the cost of buying one. |
|||||||||
GeoffR
|
Iain wrote:Good tool for the pro's but you need to be making good money to justify the cost of buying one.Or have somebody else paying for it! |
|||||||||
GeoffR
|
I see the premium for a D6 over a D5 is around £1,000. For the price of a D6 I could happily buy four D500s and I think that is exactly what I would buy if I could afford a D6, well two of them anyway. As far as I am concerned the cost of the D6 is well beyond justification for n amateur. I would like a D5 but they are still nearly £4,000 used, I paid less for three bodies (D3, 2 x D4) and I don't see any upgrades any time soon. |
|||||||||
jk
|
Since the D3S the single digit D series have provided me with little interest. I know that they are meant to be solid and dependable but there has been little innovation. The D850 is IMHO a much better camera that any other D camera closely followed by the D500 and D750/D780. To a large extent I think Nikon have lost the plot. The Z series cameras are interesting and great to use but not outstanding. |
|||||||||
GeoffR
|
jk wrote:Since the D3S the single digit D series have provided me with little interest. I know that they are meant to be solid and dependable but there has been little innovation. The D850 is IMHO a much better camera that any other D camera closely followed by the D500 and D750/D780.The extra 4MP of the D4 is a worthwhile upgrade but the stretch to the D5 doesn't make any sense to me, the D6 appears to add more video capabilities, in which I have no interest. The D500 is looking more attractive by the day but I'll stick with the D4 bodies for now. In a few years time things may be different. Obviously if the D500 comes down in price, used that is, to something I can afford I might go that way. I see the D6 in much the same way as the F6, a last gasp on the way to a new range. I think a professional level mirrorless must be waiting in the wings. Built in grip, bigger battery (think EN-EL4 or 18 size) multiple card slots etc. I started using Nikon pro bodies with the F4, I suspect the D4 may be the last of them for me. Yes I agree Nikon have lost their way. |
|||||||||
jk
|
If the D500 was 25MP or 30MP it would be a real winner. However they would need to improve the noise and dynamic range as well to really satisfy me. Currently the D850 has in excess of 10-11stops of range (some people report 11.5, 12, 13.5 stops but I dont find this in real life use) and that is just fine as I can work with that. Would be interested if Eric or Graham could check and confirm this for me. |
|||||||||
Eric
|
jk wrote:If the D500 was 25MP or 30MP it would be a real winner. However they would need to improve the noise and dynamic range as well to really satisfy me.Surely it depends on the lens being used? An inherently low contrast lens will enable a wider discernible dynamic range. Conversely a contrasty lens will clip the range. |
|||||||||
jk
|
I use Nikon lenses almost exclusively. Modern Nikon lenses seem to be pretty contrasty. |
|||||||||
Eric
|
jk wrote:I use Nikon lenses almost exclusively. Modern Nikon lenses seem to be pretty contrasty.So do I but I wonder what these people claiming extended range use...and their methodology? Anyway, I think more than 10 stops is a waste. Didnt have it before and never missed it.  |
|||||||||
jk
|
You say that but the current work around is to use HDR. IMHO HDR is a technique which can give great or horrible results and all the spectrum in between the good and bad. I think that getting a sensor with a 15 stop capture range would enable for better photography rather than gaudy disasters. |
|||||||||
Eric
|
jk wrote:You say that but the current work around is to use HDR.I am not sure a straight 15 stop range would generate the same 'dynamism' as HDR. I agree it can be overdone but I suspect it's the actual overcooking of the HDR process that makes the images more interesting. Not sure just expanding the dynamic range of the sensor would achieve the same excitement? |
|||||||||
GeoffR
|
The D850 may well be a great camera but, for me, the file size is just too big. I'm not going to change to shooting JPEGs just to get a manageable file size. HDR, done well can be almost as undetectable as the original but done badly... yes it is a work around for dynamic range limitations but how much dynamic range do you actually need? I'm not sure of the range of the human eye but much beyond that will start to look unnatural. There are effects in photography that have been over used and can turn the average viewer off them, milky waterfalls for example, great once, OKish a couple of times but when every published image of a waterfall does it I want to turn the page. HDR is much the same, well done you may only suspect it has been done but the gap between that and overdone is small. A bit like compression in audio, if you can detect it, it is too much. I have to agree that a 25MP to 30MP D500 would be a winner, a DX body that is clearly ahead of the field, but it would need the high ISO performance of current lesser cameras. To support it Nikon would need to update the venerable 17-55 f2.8; a change to 16-55 f2.8 VR would be good, though a 16-70 f2.8 VR would be even better, if expensive. It would also close the gap between the DX standard zoom and the 70-200 f2.8. Nikon have neglected the DX range when it comes to high performance zoom lenses and that needs to be addressed. A DX lens equivalent to the 14-24 f2.8 would be good too. I have yet to try a Z series camera, I already know that it is too small for comfort where I am concerned so I have little incentive despite the reported performance. |
|||||||||
jk
|
Human eye dynamic range is 20 stops or 1,000,00:1. Good LED panels can have a dynamic range of 10 stops or 1000-2000:1 This is similar for EVFs apparently. Ability to print is even worse than LED screens with a dynamic range of 6 stops or 64-128:1 So looking at prints tends to be more pleasurable but less discerning! This is not what people tend to consider to be the case when they are doing assessments. HDR is a technique so it is a human driven process that is dependent on the human eye, monitor and aesthetic abilities. Post processing in general follows this as well but HDR are seems to bring out the horrors of excesses! Regarding MP in cameras. I have purchased and love the Z7, D850, D800, D500, D600, D3S, D3, D700, D300, D2X, D1X, D1. I also had a D200, D100, D90 and D80, D70. The D200 was a fairly good camera but not up to snuff when compared with D3 and D700. The D100 was not a great camera (IMHO). The D90 was/is a pretty good as I still have it, and similarly the D80. The D70 is a good little camera but the horribly small TFT screen on the back (not bad for its time) is a limitation. My perfect camera would be a 30MP D3S with a lighter option of a D800. The D850 as you say has too many MPs for general use but it is a brilliant camera with much better features than any of the other cameras I own or have owned. If you want to be able to shoot and crop then it is perfect. If you work carefully and slowly then in truth a 25-30MP will give you more than enough. I find the D500 to be a stupendous camera for fast action and birds in flight but if you start to crop then the image seems to go noisy very quickly! I use my D600 for general stuff but in truth I choose the Fujis cameras with better/similar IQ and similar 24MP. The latest XT3 and now XT4 are now on a par with Nikon D800 for AF performance. I actually prefer the control layout of the XT3 to any other camera I have had except the Nikon F3. The Z series is brilliant and the Z7 has all the features of the D850 and more. There is a 'but' though, for me the mount jump (from F mount to S mount) is a complete distraction and has been driven (IMHO) by lens designers looking for a job, rather than consumer need or desire. I understand the design opportunities and flange distance in the Z series is less than the DSLRs but a metal ring is cheaper than all the changes to move to a S mount set of lenses. BTW: I understand the idea that manufacturers need to increase profits and consumerism to feed the greedy shareholders. I dont espouse these beliefs! |
|||||||||
GeoffR
|
jk wrote:Human eye dynamic range is 20 stops or 1,000,00:1.Interesting and informative. jk wrote: The Z series is brilliant and the Z7 has all the features of the D850 and more. There is a 'but' though, for me the mount jump (from F mount to S mount) is a complete distraction and has been driven (IMHO) by lens designers looking for a job, rather than consumer need or desire. I understand the design opportunities and flange distance in the Z series is less than the DSLRs but a metal ring is cheaper than all the changes to move to a S mount set of lenses.As I said, physically too small for me, but I think Nikon could have done better with the FTZ adaptor, it doesn't need a tripod socket, which is unusable with the comical grip, a simple tube would have been better and much cheaper all round. |
|||||||||
Eric
|
With regard to the file size of the D850....yes it is ott, but in a considerable number of recent situations the need to crop soon thinned down final file size. Moreover, I find I am more able to discern imperfections (with the finer detail) while in the camera. As a result the number of images I actually transfer and keep are less....reducing storage size. Using an iPad for processing there is no slow up in processing except when reading/transferring the files over the WiFi to the iPad. I find it manageable at the moment but in the future if I have more images to process I may be agreeing with you on unnecessary file size. |
|||||||||
jk
|
Eric, do you have an iPad Pro? Is it gen1 (lightning) or gen2 (usb-c) for its power connection? If it is gen2 then you can use a usb-c to usb-a cable adapter to download to ipad. So all you need is the cable that came with the camera one of these little adapters. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pcs-Micro-USB-Female-to-Type-C-Male-Converter-USB-C-Adapter-Converter-Adaptor/254478048897? My ipad is unfortunately an ipad Pro gen1 so I cant test but it does work apparently. Direct connection is faster than wifi. |
|||||||||
jk
|
GeoffR wrote:Interesting and informative.The FTZ needs reworking to allow slow AF to the camera for AF and AFD lenses. Apparently Nikon just need to put a 'screwdriver motor' into the FTZ and change the F mount flange to one with the screwdriver AF interface. Power comes from the camera battery same as in the older camera bodies! Camera purchase choices are driven by personal preferences as well as camera specifications so that is fine.  |
|||||||||
Eric
|
jk wrote:Eric, do you have an iPad Pro?Yes. It's a gen 1. It's not an issue to me as I first transfer all files direct from XQD card to my Passport (storage) drive...that's quick. It's the drive's browser app (MYCLOUD) that's a bit clunky. In fact it's the raw preview in the app that is the slow part, the actual WiFi transfer is not too slow. |
|||||||||
GeoffR
|
jk wrote:The FTZ needs reworking to allow slow AF to the camera for AF and AFD lenses.Two models of FTZ would be better, FTZ-E with just the electronic interface, and no tripod socket. FTZ-A for both electronic and mechanical interface, and no tripod socket. That would allow those who don't need the mechanical drive to have a cheaper and lighter adaptor. |
|||||||||
jk
|
GeoffR wrote:Two models of FTZ would be better, FTZ-E with just the electronic interface, and no tripod socket. FTZ-A for both electronic and mechanical interface, and no tripod socket. That would allow those who don't need the mechanical drive to have a cheaper and lighter adaptor.Yes. I agree 100%. I want the FTZ-A please. I already have a simple F-Ai to S mount for my non-AF lenses. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Manual-Adapter-for-Nikon-Nikkor-AI-AIS-F-D-Lens-to-Nikon-Z-Mount-Z6-Z7-Camera/323585561778?_ The current FTZ for my AFS lenses. But nothing in between to allow my AF and AFD lens to work. Where are those hard working Chinese people when you need them? We need that FTZ-A now. They must have caught the British disease - laziness! |
|||||||||
Robert
|
jk wrote:Where are those hard working Chinese people when you need them? They must have caught the British disease - laziness! I suspect their innovative skills are not as good as their copycat skills, yet even those skills are hampered by the current health issues, where are the microbiologists when you need them! |
|||||||||
Eric
|
Robert wrote:I suspect their innovative skills are not as good as their copycat skills, yet even those skills are hampered by the current health issues, where are the microbiologists when you need them!On a losing wicket I would say. JK will know more about this but it was my understanding that it can take years to get a vaccine out into the mass market given all the testing required. By that time, the virus has mutated or a new one appeared that nullifies the new vaccine. Back to square one. It seems as though nature is continually finding ways to stifle human innovation and expansion. WE ARE the virus in nature's eyes. |
|||||||||
jk
|
Robert wrote:I suspect their innovative skills are not as good as their copycat skills, yet even those skills are hampered by the current health issues, where are the microbiologists when you need them!Doing DIY in GradeII listed buildings and taking photographs. Need to get up on the roof to clear the gutters and seal some masonry and pointing that seems porous. Life is too short to worry about small things like viruses!  |
|||||||||
jk
|
Eric wrote:On a losing wicket I would say. JK will know more about this but it was my understanding that it can take years to get a vaccine out into the mass market given all the testing required. By that time, the virus has mutated or a new one appeared that nullifies the new vaccine. Back to square one.I think Eric says it well! We are the peak parasites on this planet. |
|||||||||
Graham Whistler
|
Like Eric I find the D850 is well up to most bird photography and for small birds you can crop & blow up images with very little noise comparded with D500 images. Auto focus on D850 is as good as the D500 and slightly less FPS is no problems when tracking birds in flight AF-C and 25 focus points. I find file size is no problem with x2 3 TB very large hard drives on my PC. |
|||||||||
jk
|
Graham, Eric, I find the D500 much better for BIF as the focus points cover the whole viewfinder whilst on the D850 it is only in the central part. Centre circle and its wings, Or have I got something set in my CSM menus that prevents me getting the outer screen peripherals, above and below, included? All suggestions welcome. |
|||||||||
Robert
|
jk wrote:Doing DIY in GradeII listed buildings and taking photographs. Need to get up on the roof to clear the gutters and seal some masonry and pointing that seems porous. Couldn't resist the dig! I agree, much ado about nothing, so far... As for file size, I have a 500Gb SSD where I keep current files, after being processed and the chaff weeded out and deleted they are moved to my larger spinning drives for longer term storage/archive. |
|||||||||
Eric
|
jk wrote:Graham, Eric,Don't quite understand the need to focus at the edge of the frame? With a bird in flight I find I need to keep it dead centre or I run the risk of clipping a wing. I have single spot focus as default on the back AF (thumb) button with Group and Wide area assigned to the front function button and dof preview button respectively, which I can use as required instead of the thumb for more challenging subjects. Not sure what I am missing? But would welcome everyone's thoughts. |
|||||||||
jk
|
If the focus points don't cover the whole screen then it wont acquire focus until you are within the area covered by the focus points. The ability to have the bird in centre of the screen is very desirable but not always but you want the camera to try to acquire as soon as object starts to appear in viewfinder. |
|||||||||
Eric
|
jk wrote:If the focus points don't cover the whole screen then it wont acquire focus until you are within the area covered by the focus points.I am not doubting the principal but I've never found that a problem. I am old school and still feel I am quicker moving the camera to the subject rather than moving focus points around the screen. (Anyway I always forget to move them back afterwards!) So it's second nature for me to centre the bird. But I am planning to photograph Hobby's catching butterflies this Summer....so I may hang onto the D500 till then. |
|||||||||
jk
|
Eric wrote:I am not doubting the principal but I've never found that a problem.Ah that is where we differ in operating principle (maybe). I put the D500 on Dynamic Area AF-C 153 points, and then it will capture lock as bird(s) enter the viewfinder and the AF lock is achieved before it is in the central section. I cant do the same on the D850 which only has Dynamic Area in the central section. I have just been looking at the D850 manual. They have a section called Subject Tracking AF (see page 43). This seems to provide similar functionality to the D500 as it says "Position the focus point over your subject and press the center of the multi selector. The focus point will track the selected subject as it moves through the frame. To end press center of the multi selector again." I find that this works well for me. |
|||||||||
chrisbet
|
Horses for courses, and with big objects like horses I find the tight central cluster of focus points on the 610 ideal, the last thing I want is the camera deciding to focus on the rail behind the horse! When photographing the DC3s I found auto focus a waste of time - it just would not stay locked on, I think I would find bird photography challenging! |
|||||||||
GeoffR
|
Eric wrote:I am not doubting the principal but I've never found that a problem.Likewise, the biggest problem comes when they fly directly overhead! I never had a problem with the mere 51 focus points of the D3 and I don't anticipate any with the D4 but I do have to get used to the idea that the native ISO is only 100. I was wondering why I couldn't get it to track a dog on Monday, nothing to do with AF, lots to do with a shutter speed of 1/15s |
|||||||||
Eric
|
GeoffR wrote:Likewise, the biggest problem comes when they fly directly overhead!And then there's panning correctly to follow the critters! Ive started to test JKs assertions and today been 'chasing' seagulls over the garden. In addition to giving myself neck and upper arm muscle cramps I have discovered that while tracking, keeping the bird in frame with focus locked on....you have to remember to fire the shutter. |
|||||||||
Eric
|
jk wrote:Ah that is where we differ in operating principle (maybe).How does the dynamic area mode choose to focus on the bird flying at the edge of the frame if there is a tree or other object in the middle of the frame? I will have a look at the Subject Tracking option on Friday.....got visitors tomorrow. |
|||||||||
jk
|
I dont know but it worked for me when I first got my D500 and 200-500. I was trying to capture African BeeEaters which fly very fast and high. But when they swoop down you can get some very nice shots. I havent had a chance to test extensively as they are only in my area in Spain for about one week in April/May and again in September. I will start to use again after this winter when I hopefully I have more free time. At present I am trying to get a dry day so I can go and check my chimney stack and its flashings. Also need to clean the gulleys around it as I am getting some damp penetration around it. Oh the joys of Grade II Listed buildings! |
|||||||||
GeoffR
|
Eric wrote:And then there's panning correctly to follow the critters!I pretty much had the AF sorted for birds with the D3 but the D4 is subtly different so I need some more practice, and better light. Following Kites can be interesting because they tend to travel in circles that drift with the wind. Try panning as they go directly overhead and you run a serious risk of falling over! Today isn't a day to experiment, it is raining and there aren't any kites about. |
|||||||||
Eric
|
GeoffR wrote:I pretty much had the AF sorted for birds with the D3 but the D4 is subtly different so I need some more practice, and better light.Here's one to tide you over.  Just returning to the discussion on locking focus. The above image was easy for the camera to hold focus as there were no distracting objects in the background for it to dither over. But when the bird dipped low over the fields there was a danger the autofocus (whatever mode used) would cause the focus point to change to a background item, unless the centre spot/group was left on the bird.  |
|||||||||
Eric
|
jk wrote:I dont know but it worked for me when I first got my D500 and 200-500.I am reeeeally glad I got my new roof and double glazing finished before these recent storms. I fear most of my old roof slates would have be in Denmark now. |
|||||||||
jk
|
Glad you are snug and warm with the new roof and double glazing. Today I checked the gutters and chimney stack which is fine. Cleaned out the gutters and gullies around the stack. Roof tiles are fine. If there is no rain tonight/tomorrow morning then it is back up the ladder and wire brush the wall and spray the mortar joints with silicone fluid sealant. That will complete the difficult part of the job. Then wait for the rain that is due on Saturday and see how successful my efforts have been. |
|||||||||
jk
|
Back on Topic. Second lower image is great. Love the pale green background. Yes I grant you it is easier with a larger bird but even raptors are quite difficult as they fly, glide, hover and dive. The hover is the time to get them! The bee eaters are very fast moving and probably about the size of a small jackdaw or large blackbird. My success rate is not super high less than 30% and that was two years ago. I will try and see if I can get some Cornish Choughs or kingfishers to photograph once my DIY jobs are complete. |
|||||||||
Current theme is Blue
| A small amount of member data is captured and held in an attempt to reduce spammers and to manage users. This site also uses cookies to ensure ease of use. In order to comply with new DPR regulations you are required to agree/disagree with this process. If you do not agree then please email the Admins using info@nikondsl.uk Thank you. |