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| New: Z5 AnnouncedEntry level? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Jul 21st, 2020 07:57 | 1st Post |
| Z5 has been announced by Nikon. Seems an outstanding spec for an entry level FX body. https://www.dpreview.com/news/6057317091/nikon-z5-is-an-entry-level-full-frame-camera-that-doesn-t-cut-corners Seems a worthwhile body, only thing I don't see the point of in an 'entry level' body is is dual card slots, the capacity of modern cards is surely sufficient, it's not hard to swap a card out. I am running 64Gb cards in my D800 and don't have an issue. Even for long (> 6 Hrs) time lapse, two good batteries run out before a single 64Gb card is anywhere near full.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Iain: Tue Jul 21st, 2020 11:03 | 2nd Post |
It seems ok but am I reading right 4.5fps 
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| Posted by jk: Tue Jul 21st, 2020 12:38 | 3rd Post |
| Been watching it on the rumour tree. The Z5 is a good entry level item for those who want mirrorless. It has a different sensor to the Z6 but a similar specification but lesser cost. 24MP is fine for general use and portraits, but for landscape and fine detail the trend seems to be to want 45MP for this type of work.
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Jul 22nd, 2020 04:06 | 4th Post |
Iain wrote:It seems ok but am I reading right 4.5fpsProtecting the more expensive models? I haven't read the spec in detail but I assume there will be a truly silent mode, good for nature photography like birding?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Iain: Wed Jul 22nd, 2020 11:22 | 5th Post |
Robert wrote:Protecting the more expensive models?The D780 seems the better option with a live view silent mode at 12fps
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| Posted by jk: Wed Jul 22nd, 2020 11:52 | 6th Post |
| I dont know the D780 or the Z5 but the Z7 is quieter than the D850 I would say. I guess this is a trend with mirrorless that mirrorless will be more silent than DSLR as there is no mirror flapping around.
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| Posted by GeoffR: Wed Jul 22nd, 2020 17:18 | 7th Post |
Iain wrote:The D780 seems the better option with a live view silent mode at 12fpsI would tend to agree but there will be those who value the size, weight and silence of the Z5. Silent mode is a difficult thing to categorise, there is mechanical movement so there is always going to be some sound. If you reduce the amount of movement, such as by removing the mirror, there has to be less noise. The important question is whether the difference between an SLR in "silent" mode and a mirrorless in "silent" mode is of significance to the user. Not that I would buy a D780 as it doesn't take a grip*. *See my previous posts on the subject to see why that is important.
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| Posted by jk: Wed Jul 22nd, 2020 17:38 | 8th Post |
| I guess that they may offer the MB-N10 battery grip (or similar) for the D780 as it works for the Z7, Z6, and Z5. Shame that Nikon forgot that an extra vertical mode shutter release is a winner when they designed the MB-N10 battery grip. Two EN-EL15 batteries should be enough for most situations.
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| Posted by Eric: Thu Jul 23rd, 2020 09:49 | 9th Post |
| Not sure why silent camera operation is such a must have? I can understand manufacturers wanting to reduce camera complexity and remove mechanisms that may fail over time. But wildlife photographers have gotten by with a bit of mirror slap for 50+years. To me it's selling a feature as a benefit.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Thu Jul 23rd, 2020 10:48 | 10th Post |
| Lots of wedding photographers want silent but as you say we have been living with this for many years. I guess that with the advent of smartphones that are mostly silent unless the user puts sound and flash on! Marketing are constantly looking for new angles!! No further comment required.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by chrisbet: Thu Jul 23rd, 2020 11:08 | 11th Post |
| Until my D610 can't do what I want, I'll be staying with it - the mirror is actually quite quiet, certainly much quieter than the D90!
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by GeoffR: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 04:36 | 12th Post |
Eric wrote:Not sure why silent camera operation is such a must have? I can understand manufacturers wanting to reduce camera complexity and remove mechanisms that may fail over time. But wildlife photographers have gotten by with a bit of mirror slap for 50+years.In many venues photography is strongly discouraged; churches during the wedding ceremony being but one. Even a quiet shutter and mirror can be enough to draw attention to a photographer who flouts the rules. I assume therefore that a truly silent camera is desirable for those who don't want to be constrained by other people's requirements. I am sure there are other circumstances where photography is permitted but the noise of the quietest SLR might be a distraction, possibly dangerously so, to performers. In that case silence would be highly desirable. Most of the time however I don't see the problem with the shutter/mirror sound.
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| Posted by GeoffR: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 04:39 | 13th Post |
chrisbet wrote:Until my D610 can't do what I want, I'll be staying with it - the mirror is actually quite quiet, certainly much quieter than the D90!I was playing with an F5 a few days ago, to see if VR worked with it as it happens, and I took a couple of shots on the ancient film that was in it. The shutter noise is quite different from that of the D4, not louder but of a different character.
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| Posted by chrisbet: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 05:28 | 14th Post |
| Intrigued by iain's comment re the 780 I had a browse in Ken Rockwell's website - "I love my Nikon D780 over everything mirrorless because, like the real camera it is, everything just works and GOES! instantly. There's never any waiting as with mirrorless; my D780 responds instantly to every button or shutter press, its autofocus is much faster than any Nikon Z camera and all its memory and saving functions work as they should, letting me recall all my settings in the flick of a dial to reset my camera completely between my favorite combinations of shooting settings. On Nikon's fancier cameras like the D5, D6 and D850 I have to stop and fiddle in idiotic "Shooting Menus" and in "Settings Menus" to do what happens with one click on my D780, ensuring I get my shot as conditions change rapidly. Also unlike any mirrorless camera, saving my settings to a card saves and recalls everything without forgetting anything. All mirrorless attempts at this easy function today have failed: the Nikon Z6, Z7 and Sony A7R Mk IV all forget and reset their shooting memories when you recall settings from a card! Losers! Better than any Nikon mirrorless camera, the D780 has two card slots, and they're for world-standard SD cards, not QXD or other expensive boutique frou-frou cards you can't find anywhere. Bravo D780! I so love getting a real DSLR again after having wasted so much time with mirrorless these past two years since my glorious D850 came out. I hate having to wait for my camera to respond to my commands; I need a camera that serves me, not one that expects me to wait for it and expend my time, effort and concentration working around its defective firmware that's always updating. With my D780, it just goes and I get work done, instead of waiting in quiet desperation for firmware fixes that never come."
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 06:53 | 15th Post |
| I have no wish to change what I have got they work. I have tried Z7 & Z6 and was not at all impressed no doubt this new so caller lower price offering will be more of less so! Look at the price!!!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 07:23 | 16th Post |
chrisbet wrote:Intrigued by iain's comment re the 780 I had a browse in Ken Rockwell's website -I would be very careful believing what Ken Rockwell says. I am sure the D780 is very good but I have never used it. There is always some start-up lag from first switch on. I dont think that the D850 behaves any differently to the D780 and indeed I would be very surprised if the D780 outperformed the D850. My D850 does have a startup time, it is small but noticeable. It is not instant on but is a trifle quicker than the Z7.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by chrisbet: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 07:48 | 17th Post |
| I didn't realise that there was a startup lag - reminds me of my brother's digital camera (no idea what make) which missed every opportunity because it took seconds to warm up! So used to just picking up the 610 flicking it on and shooting without delay! That would seriously put me off going mirrorless and the reason I use linux not windows - just cannot abide waiting for technology to faff around!
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by jk: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 08:16 | 18th Post |
chrisbet wrote:I didn't realise that there was a startup lag - reminds me of my brother's digital camera (no idea what make) which missed every opportunity because it took seconds to warm up!All digital cameras have this lag as they are essentially computers that capture images and need to boot up. The boot up time now is probably less than the time it takes to raise the camera to your eye to take the photo.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by GeoffR: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 12:23 | 19th Post |
chrisbet wrote:Intrigued by iain's comment re the 780 I had a browse in Ken Rockwell's website -Ken Rockwell has some very firm opinions, which he is entitled to, and makes some apparently categorical statements that are sometimes just wrong. As an example he states in his D4 review that "the replaceable clock battery is new" he is in fact completely wrong as it was introduced with the D2H. In the same review he criticises the XQD card because "Lexar and SanDisk don't make them", no Sony make them and they are hardly a small player in the market. I take most of what he says with a pinch of salt.
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| Posted by jk: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 13:50 | 20th Post |
| Ken Rockwell is (in)famous for his reviews which are apparently frequently just copied opinions from other reviewers. I tend to take his review comments with a huge pinch of salt! I always believe that it is best to try for yourself as frequently one man's delight, is another man's poison. Much discussion in the Fuji forums regarding the adoption by Fuji of the fully articulating LCD back screen on the XT4 (like on most Canon cameras), which I prefer, over the two way articulation adopted previously by Fuji and Nikon.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 16:37 | 21st Post |
| Neither my D500 nor D850 have a startup time? They are instantly on. If I prefocus on a subject (to take that operation out of the sequence) ....switch off the camera. Then switch on and press the shutter simultaneously I get a perfectly focused image immediately. Am I missing something? I always felt Thom Hogan gives more balanced reviews... D780 I find the D850 a bit of an overkill for general day to day photography. Having established that the D500 gives me little advantage over the D850 in most situations and preferring the advantages of FX format, I would be tempted to trade in the D500 for a D780 if the price were more sensibly positioned. At £2200, it's too expensive compared to a £1400 D500 and the £2400 D850. I recognise it's newer, but can't help feeling Nikon have struggled with the competition it poses to its own Z6 and decided to keep the price away from the £1500 Z6. A sub £2000 price would tempt me more.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 19:50 | 22nd Post |
| Eric, Try this. Switch on camera and instantly push shutter release. It does not fire instantly. The start up time is about 150milliseconds. This is near instantaneous but it is not immediate. Likewise there is a lagtime between shutter release being pushed and shutter firing I think this is 5-15milliseconds depending on the camera. All this stuff is listed somewhere but I can't remember where! I agree that the D780 pricing is very high. I dont use my D850 and Z7 as much as my D800 or Fuji XT3 and XH1. Why? Because the Fuji has just the right amount of 24-26MP and the 30MP of the D800 works very well.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 19:56 | 23rd Post |
| Found it. Timings for D850. https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d850/nikon-d850A6.HTM
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 04:34 | 24th Post |
| With more recent bodies I have found there is negligible battery drain from leaving the camera turned on throughout a session, so I don't quite see the concern about the very short start up delay. I have never been able to beat the startup time, even with the D1, by the time the camera is to my eye and I press the shutter release the capacitor is charged and it fires the shutter. The only issue was the first D1-D1X battery I built with 18650 cells I used wire which was too thin and created a resistance to the main capacitor, once I had replaced the wire with a heavier size it was perfectly OK. Indeed I have occasionally left cameras turned on for days and found the battery drain has been insignificant, not that I am recommending the practice because I think it could be bad for battery health. Using the D300S for time-lapse over six weeks I became tired of swapping out batteries, I was rotating five EN-EL3 batteries I could see the difference in capacity between the batteries, indeed one died during that session, I eventually used a mains power source which obviously fixed the battery problem but I still had to swap out the CF cards regularly.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 06:36 | 25th Post |
jk wrote:Eric, Try this.Sorry Jonathan but that is a mind numbingly insignificant duration in the grand scheme of things. The time it takes the index finger to move from the on switch action to the shutter button is far far longer than that anyway. Just did a test ... prefocused using the back button and switched off. Using index finger on shutter button and second finger to switch on power as near simultaneously as I can manage ( bear in mind I am practiced at simultaneous two button actions, getting screen grabs on an ipad 😆). It took the shot 'straight away'....before the bird moved. I do wonder if those times include the time to focus?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 07:01 | 26th Post |
| Ok here are some interesting? photos. Using the two finger action described above set on motor drive First frame....  Click here to comment on this image. Second frame...  Click here to comment on this image. Is that telling us something about the actual 'preparedness' of the camera to take the photos within the timespan of 2 frames at whatever the FPS the d850 does at CL setting? Being a 'micro' less simultaneous, using index finger to both switch on and immediately move / press shutter.....  Click here to comment on this image. That's fast enough for me. With one second equal to saying 'One Hippopotamus' ...I didn't get beyond pursing my lips. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 07:06 | 27th Post |
| Interesting indeed. What is the dark band to the right of the image? Is it a curtain or the camera not capturing that part of the image? BTW: Dont get me wrong about the startup time. If it is 1 millisecond or 1 second then that is fine but there is a startup time which can be an issue to some people. The Nikons dont sleep like the Fuji cameras. On the Nikon it stays alive on the Fuji it definitely goes to sleep and to wake it even when switched on takes time especially if it is in Normal rather than High Performance time!.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 07:12 | 28th Post |
jk wrote:Interesting indeed.Nope the curtains were fully drawn .....it's an internal effect. Almost as though part of the camera is ready but another part is still asleep. The sequence is correct by the way. The first frame had less of the black...so it wasn't a progressive waking up...it wasn't ready by the second frame either.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 07:22 | 29th Post |
| Hmmm. Situation could be worse than I thought then. Live and learn. Well discovered.
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| Posted by Eric: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 07:26 | 30th Post |
Like Robert says, if immediacy (faster than my reflexes  ) is required....leave it switched on.Can't help thinking some of these testers are the same ones that listen for hiss on the speakers rather than hearing the music. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 07:29 | 31st Post |
| I have just done turn on test with D850 and 500mm PF and see no problem for me. Hand holding with a 500mm lens takes more than a split second. I have never felt tat this is a problem with any of the DSLRs for several years now. I also set up my cameras to Sensor Clean at start and shutdown this must make a bit more extra time to do? (Thank goodness for this I can not tell you how long it is since I cleaned a sensor must be D2X days.) Mind you I am 80yrs old today so perhaps am a bit slow now who cares!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 07:38 | 32nd Post |
| Graham, I used to have clean at start and shutdown then I analysed when it was most likely that I needed to clean and it seemed to me that Clean at Shutdown only. My thought for that change to Shutdown only is that any dust will most likely enter during use and lens changes, so clean at shutdown seems best. Just my thought on the process. Also I dont know how much battery power is used on cleaning the sensor.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 13:55 | 33rd Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Mind you I am 80yrs old today so perhaps am a bit slow now who cares!Well done Graham, many happy returns! 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by GeoffR: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 14:14 | 34th Post |
Eric wrote:Like Robert says, if immediacy (faster than my reflexesYou mean to say that a Hi-Fi system can play music? My method with a camera is simple, switch it on when I get where I am going and leave it on until I leave, read get out of the car and get back in the car. Many happy returns Graham.
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| Posted by jk: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 15:11 | 35th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote: Well hope you have enjoyed your day Graham. 
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 16:33 | 36th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:I have just done turn on test with D850 and 500mm PF and see no problem for me. Hand holding with a 500mm lens takes more than a split second. I have never felt tat this is a problem with any of the DSLRs for several years now. I also set up my cameras to Sensor Clean at start and shutdown this must make a bit more extra time to do? (Thank goodness for this I can not tell you how long it is since I cleaned a sensor must be D2X days.)Happy Birthday Graham. I was going to suggest we all chipped in and bought you a Z camera...but as you don't like them, it's just as well we didn't. Best wishes I hope I am still around and 'firing' even half as well at 80.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Iain: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 05:59 | 37th Post |
| Delayed Happy Birthday Graham. When I go out I turn the camera on and only turn it off if I put it in the boot for traveling so never have any delay issues. I am tempted with the D780 to replace my D750 but like you Eric the price need to come down quite a bit first.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 06:01 | 38th Post |
| Very kind thought but nothing to photograph in our garden now we have stopped feeding the birds.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Bob Bowen: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 06:33 | 39th Post |
| Happy birthday Graham. May your ability to hold a 500mm continue for many years.
____________________ Bob Bowen |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 09:05 | 40th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Very kind thought but nothing to photograph in our garden now we have stopped feeding the birds.We should always have our camera at the ready...and switched on. Last night sat with the patio door open enjoying the cool evening breeze.....and a frog hopped in 🸠 Jan and I spent several minutes chasing it around the lounge ....under units 🸠, behind speakers 🸠and amongst cables 🸠, curtains 🸠and scattered paraphernalia 🸠...we were ALL exhausted. Of course the camera was in the bag„. I do wonder if a video of the wife corralling the critter would have been worth doing. But suspect I would have been less popular for not helping. Released it in the flower border....then remembered that's where the hedgehogs gather😱. Let's hope it had enough energy left to evade them too.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by chrisbet: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 09:36 | 41st Post |
Eric wrote:We should always have our camera at the ready...and switched on.That is where the phone comes in - always good to go and catch the video or photo.
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by Iain: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 10:24 | 42nd Post |
| I have just had this picture of the frog, you and Jan all jumping around you lounge.
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| Posted by Robert: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 14:35 | 43rd Post |
Just happen to have an iPhone picture of TWO frogs (possibly Toads) caught in a trice with my ever ready iPhone. Click here to comment on this image.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 16:11 | 44th Post |
I've just got the iPhone and taken a shot of where the frog was and went....if that's any interest.  Click here to comment on this image.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 07:15 | 45th Post |
| That's why we still need a real DSLR camera!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 15:44 | 46th Post |
| In praise of the iPhone...... The light had gone by the time it would have taken to ..... find my camera, get it out of the case, change the lens, switch on, adjust settings and fire  Click here to comment on this image.  Click here to comment on this image.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 15:57 | 47th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Very kind thought but nothing to photograph in our garden now we have stopped feeding the birds.I swopped the camera for a hedge trimmer today.  Click here to comment on this image. No end of people passing by and commenting. One woman asked what I was creating. I said “a load of ballsâ€. She said “OH No.... I think it's very goodâ€. Dead posh round here. Another chap said “what are you making ?†I said “Asteroids†He said “that doesn't surprise me leaning and straining that muchâ€. Footnote: Yes I KNOW they aren't perfectly round and different sizes/shapes. It's not easy standing on a wobbly ladder holding a trimmer at arms length.....it's a lot heavier than a camera + 500mm lens. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Iain: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 04:05 | 48th Post |
| They look ok Eric. rather you than me standing on a wobbly ladder.
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| Posted by jk: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 04:33 | 49th Post |
| Those look like a lot of work. No wonder you cant get you camera out quickly.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by novicius: Thu Sep 10th, 2020 19:38 | 50th Post |
| I would like the Quietness of a Z camera ( Shutter sound of the Big D camera`s sound like a Drawbridge thundering down ) , but...the EVF does Not work well with PC Nikkors , even with the IRIX 11 f4.0 I have problems viewing,..just tried it in the shop, and that `s enough for me Not to invest in a camera with EVF.
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
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