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| A pair of SwansTop and Bottom! | Rating: 
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Mar 7th, 2016 04:46 | 1st Post |
| Went on a bike ride yesterday. This was one of my captures. D300s, 80-200 f2.8 Trombone type 200mm @ f11, 1/800 sec ISO500 (Auto ISO)  Shortly after the first image I caught this: Same exposure data.  I guess they were feeding on water weeds. At full magnification you can see beads of water on the feathers.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Mon Mar 7th, 2016 08:38 | 2nd Post |
| Nice. That water must be absolutely freezing! I really prefer the action of the trombone for zoom rather than the current twist. I have a 80-200 f2.8 trombone but it is only AF not AFS so it gets used less these days.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Mar 8th, 2016 17:57 | 3rd Post |
Yeah...the D300 is only a minor upgrade on the D200. Nice images Robert.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Mar 9th, 2016 02:09 | 4th Post |
| Thanks Eric, I am finding using A mode which I have in general except when photographing panoramas and starscapes, that I have to work quite hard on the image to get the contrast and definition, image clarity with the D300. Those Swan images 'straight-out of the can' were rubbish. The swans were pure white, all over BUT using Lightroom and pulling back the highlights and whites, then introducing about 25 points of Clarity and a little vibrance it improved the image a lot. I am finding the new adjustment 'Dehaze' very useful, it really does get rid of annoying distance haze in images. You can of course add haze for effect if you wish. To get the final touch I still find I have to take the image into Ps and apply levels, I can't find a way of adjusting levels in Lightroom in the same was as I can in Photoshop, I still use the reverse slide technique to find the black and white points. That for me adds the final touch of clarity. There is definitely a LOT more range in a D300 NEF than there is in a D200 NEF. I would never have managed to pull back those Swans they would have blown the whites completely. As taken, note the histo not blown at either end:  After processing in Lightroom and levels in Photoshop, note the settings and the improvement in tone and definition: 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Mar 9th, 2016 04:30 | 5th Post |
Robert wrote:Thanks Eric, I am finding using A mode which I have in general except when photographing panoramas and starscapes, that I have to work quite hard on the image to get the contrast and definition, image clarity with the D300. Hmmm...I think you have over done it. On my screen those swans aren't white any more, more like grey yearlings. That's borne out by the absence of any spectacular whites on your histogram. In bright sunlight a white swan will have blown out areas, I accept you want to pull them back a tad if the cameras meters don't judge it right. However, I think, in trying to get more definition everywhere on the bird you are loosing the brightness on a sunlight swan that your eyes see. Just my opinion. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Mar 9th, 2016 04:49 | 6th Post |
| You may disagree ....but in the example below it didn't matter to me that the wing tips were burning out because the definition was clearly evident elsewhere. Attachment: image.jpeg (Downloaded 19 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Mar 9th, 2016 13:40 | 7th Post |
No I don't disagree, thanks for pointing it out.  I will reprocess them bearing in mind your comments, I appreciate your input.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Mar 9th, 2016 17:15 | 8th Post |
Robert wrote:No I don't disagree, thanks for pointing it out. Can I recommend the Plowden technique of establishing max highlight point? I use it all the time. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Mar 10th, 2016 02:53 | 9th Post |
| Currently this isn't available in Adobe Lightroom, most of the adjustment controls in Lr are very competent and work well, after all, Lr shares ACR with Photoshop. A very important control, levels, as not available in Lr the same form as it is in Ps. In fact I haven't been able to make the histogram adjustments in Lr, work in any useful way to set the black and white points as we can in Ps. I now do most of my image adjustments in Lr but have to export the image to Ps to set the black and white points and apply a stroke border and the copyright text. When I am tired or think 'it's near enough' I don't bother. On some images I am unable to get the black and white points right in Lr, so I have to resort to Ps to make the image better (right). On the whole I find I am getting 'cleaner' brighter more pleasing images processing in Lightroom but that is probably due to my poor technique in Photoshop. It's just so much easier in Lr, especially for stacks like star trails and time lapse batches. It does make a lot of difference to an image when the black and white points are right. In this case I'm not sure it's the software fault, I am pretty sure it's me trying, as Eric said to get feather detail on the entire swan area of the image which resulted in a dirty swan. Right now I have a little digger waiting for me so I must get outside and use it before the owner decides I have had it long enough! It sure beats a pick and shovel! 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu Mar 10th, 2016 05:52 | 10th Post |
| Is that your digger Robert? Can you drive it. I guess the answer is Yes.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Mar 10th, 2016 07:14 | 11th Post |
| Not mine JK, Belongs to a very nice man who lives nearby and lets me use it when I need it. Been driving them breaking them and mending/modifying them for longer than I can remember. Bigger and heavier the better! This is an 18 Ton one, in 1972 when I had a beard...  I have driven 25 and 30 ton machines quite a lot. The bigger they are the easier they are, the one I have today is only 1.5 tons. But then I wouldn't get a big machine in.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Mar 10th, 2016 14:42 | 12th Post |
OK, back on topic, (cause Mike has 'borrowed' his digger back...)  I have felt very limited by the inability to set the white and black points in Adobe Lightroom with a similar effect which is so easy in Photoshop, it has been bugging me for a while. I feel that setting the white and black points of an image is a fundamental step in the processing of almost every image. So, Google to the rescue and several attempts later hey presto! I have the answer. At the start of processing the image if you feel the need to set the white and black points of the exposure then it's very easy. If you hold down the Option key while sliding the White slider in the Develop mode of Lr, the screen goes black and then when the setting is optimal the area which will clip white appear as red zones, in a very similar way to the 'Plowden' method in Ps. Once set, repeating with the option key held down and slide the Black slider until the black clipping point appears, as blue zones. It's a matter of personal preference, per image if the whites and blacks are allowed to clip or not. In this case I allowed both white and black points to clip. This is the same image which Eric said was muddy and grey on his monitor, I think it should be pretty white now Eric. Aided by setting the WB on a non clipped part of the birds plumage. This screen shot is in the Lr Develop mode, the red zones represent the blown or clipped whites, blue zones the blown or clipped blacks:  This is in Library mode after setting the white and black points and the WB but not much else, slight tweak of -1/3 stop exposure and pulling the highlights back a bit.  This is a 1:1 crop showing the water droplets and texture of the swans feathers, no sharpening or added clarity, this is purely exposure control.  Thank you for the critique Eric, it forced me to finally crack this particular nut. Whoops! I thought this was the same image I posted at the top of the thread, it isn't the same one but it's very similar.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Mar 10th, 2016 16:45 | 13th Post |
| Well to me, they are not such ugly ducklings...but very fine swans indeed. The important question is whether YOU think the images are better? If I was to get real picky ( if LR allowed?) I would mask the left swan and reset ITS white point separately to the right swan. This could minimise the amount of burn out on the left swan. Situations like this are when the three key masking trick ( not avaialble on Mac) is so useful. It enables you to concentrate on the high register elements of the image and leave everything else unmasked.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Fri Mar 11th, 2016 00:59 | 14th Post |
Eric wrote:Well to me, they are not such ugly ducklings...but very fine swans indeed. Thank you! The important question is whether YOU think the images are better? Much better yes, Swans a white, not muddy grey, I was more struck by the pose, rather than the colour. Probably not thinking properly and with no critique to hand, posted here. If I was to get real picky ( if LR allowed?) I would mask the left swan and reset ITS white point separately to the right swan. This could minimise the amount of burn out on the left swan. Will try it, masking is available but I have only used graduated, full width like sky or foreground. Will try that I have an idea how it might work. Situations like this are when the three key masking trick ( not avaialble on Mac) is so useful. It enables you to concentrate on the high register elements of the image and leave everything else unmasked. Is that the technique where you use the ⌠and option keys, I can't remember the keystrokes but I did manage to make it happen a long while ago on some IR images which needed pulling back at the bright end. I think I marked it on the appropriate keys but I have changed keyboards at least twice since then... Would you remind me please?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Fri Mar 11th, 2016 01:30 | 15th Post |
| OK, I had a little play and in Lr, it's a two click trick! Click the selection tool at the right of the selection tools, then click on the overexposed area, it immediately subdued and became much better, it seems it automatically reduced the highlights by 25%, That is variable and can be adjusted at will or any other adjustment can be made. The size and ovality of the selection can be adjusted too by dragging the edges.  Getting to know the quirks and less obvious features of software can be quite a challenge at times. Edit: Just found how to show the actual mask area... 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Mar 11th, 2016 08:27 | 16th Post |
| That looks perfect to me!!
____________________ Eric |
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