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| Birds in flight | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by Eric: Fri Aug 25th, 2017 11:28 | 1st Post |
| Ok...anyone live to share their technique? What sort of focusing mode, and any other camera and or lens settings? I was putting the Fuji through its paces yesterday and while I got some good images of ground moving waders, my attempts to get good bird in flight images stalled. I sort of got this duck ( Teal?) but every time I pointed the camera towards the heavens I seemed to lose the critters as they changed direction in the wind. I tend to use a small focus area and wondered if that's why I cannot keep them locked on as they move about a lot in the frame. The other question is ....should I be backing off the focal length to keep better sighting of the birds movements in the viewfinder and then crop final image...as opposed to filling the frame and hoping it's flight stays predictable? Attachment: _DSF2280.JPG (Downloaded 28 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Aug 25th, 2017 11:33 | 2nd Post |
| And another...
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Aug 25th, 2017 11:33 | 3rd Post |
| And another... Attachment: _DSF2286.JPG (Downloaded 27 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Aug 25th, 2017 11:35 | 4th Post |
| In contrast the Ruffs and Lapwings were easier.... Attachment: _DSF2263.JPG (Downloaded 28 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Fri Aug 25th, 2017 17:48 | 5th Post |
| I tend to use my D500 with 200-500 for BIF images. I am hoping that the new D850 will be just as good so it will give me even better opportunities as sometimes crops from D500 look a bit grainy!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Aug 25th, 2017 19:26 | 6th Post |
jk wrote:I tend to use my D500 with 200-500 for BIF images. Ah, now, you have raised an interesting issue. Cropping. One of my problems is keeping the birds under the focus points. I found that at full magnification I was unable to predict or follow erratic movement....as a result they slipped away from the focus points and even out of frame! So one thought was to back off magnification to give more field of view to recover from erratic movement...and crop. The 45mp of the D850 might help? The other problem is I've been using single point focusing and I suspect I need more focusing points covering the image as well!! Have to say I don't find it easy and would welcome suggestions from all the wildlife shooters as to how they cope with erratic movement. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Aug 26th, 2017 07:09 | 7th Post |
| Despite having been home for a couple of days my mind hasn't caught up with me! Have been following these conversations but was too tired to join in. Eric, When was the last time you photographed erratic birds in flight? May I suggest it's one of the most difficult modes of photography and requires tons of practice. When I go motor racing, the first day is rubbish, keeping tight frame on the cars I'm lucky to get 25% of my shots with all the car in frame and cars (even on a race track) are reasonably predictable. Me thinks you need to go out every day for a week at least to get half good, practice makes perfect they say and I think this is one activity to which that applies in spades. Perhaps to make things easier start with a loose frame and tighten up as your aim, anticipation and reflexes improve. Bit like driving on ice, easy with practice. Back in the 70's a good friend of mine called on me at my workshop, it had just snowed and the tracks around the disused army camp where my workshop was were very slippery. We decided to try his rally prepared car out. Down a long straight with a 90º right at the end I pulled his hand brake on hard and we spun off! LOL OK I took my friend by surprise, but I kept doing it and after about an hour my friend could keep the car on the track despite whatever I did with the handbrake. He went on to win the next rally a few days later. His first outright win. Practice...
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sat Aug 26th, 2017 10:38 | 8th Post |
| I agree with Robert's strategy.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Aug 26th, 2017 16:51 | 9th Post |
Robert wrote:Despite having been home for a couple of days my mind hasn't caught up with me! Have been following these conversations but was too tired to join in. Last time I (still) photographed birds in flight was last year...it was also the FIRST time I ever froze birds in the air. I did make 16mm films of birds in flight back in the 70s....when I was 40 years younger and the footage was invariable supportive to close up bird footage e.g. Birds on nests. So in real terms this is only the second time I've pointed my lens skyward or at least at a moving bird with a still camera. I KNOW you are right that it takes time to 'warm up' on a new subject. In fact I always encourage Jan to take shots of anything before starting her flower photographing. A bit like priming the lawnmower ....not a classic analogy.  I remember David Bailey being asked how to perfectly photograph a mushroom. He answered "photograph the mushroom every day for a year...that will probably do it". Ask me to photograph kitchens, bedrooms, restaurants and machinery ....I could do it in my sleep (especially bedrooms ) But take on a new subject and I find it soooo hard. Not sure I will get a return to the reserve this week ...and I do think repeating the experience quickly would be better, to imprint the method. But I am taking the 'gear' with me to Scotland next month...so who knows what I might see that will speed up my technique.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Aug 26th, 2017 18:50 | 10th Post |
| I remember Lord Snowden? being interviewed and doing a 'phone in' on the BBC Radio 2 Jimmy Young program, pre digital of course! He was asked about fixing 'red eye' by one caller, Lord Snowden suggesting you could get a felt tip pen to fix it, the caller was most alarmed saying it would hurt the subjects eyes and how could he do such a thing...
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Judith: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 13:52 | 11th Post |
| I had a shot at seagull snapping a couple of weeks ago. Birds are a pain - damned things keep moving!! My technique probably won't help you much but was... Oh, bird! Point camera. Follow the bird, follow the bird, follow the bird...SNAP!! It worked though. D810 and 70-300 lens. Here's one of the piccies. Nothing done to it except a resize for here. Yes, that is a genuine Scottish blue sky - it happens sometimes! The second pic is a crop from the centre of it. Very sharp. The light conditions were pretty good though. Attachment: JWP_7698crop.JPG (Downloaded 17 times)
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| Posted by Judith: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 13:53 | 12th Post |
| And the detail of the bird's head... Attachment: JWP_7698crop2.JPG (Downloaded 15 times)
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| Posted by Judith: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 14:10 | 13th Post |
| I had a rather different birds in flight challenge last month though when I went on an Osprey spotting walk. The light was chalenging as it was evening and by the time I spotted one it was 10pm and I was walking back to the car. OK, it was in the north of Scotland at the height of summer and it was still light. So, I pointed the trusty D810 and used the technique above and shot off a series of pics. Considering the poor light and the distance the osprey was from me, I am amazed at the amount of detail the camera picked up and that it managed to focus at all. They're not great quality, but hey, it's an osprey and I'm happy lol. I'm clueless about noise reduction. What would be the best way to clean it up a bit? Iso 6400, 1/1250s, f5.6 70-300mm at 300. This is the original pic: Attachment: JWP_7569sm.JPG (Downloaded 15 times)
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| Posted by Judith: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 14:10 | 14th Post |
| And this is it cropped with a quick levels adjustment. Attachment: JWP_7569 crop.jpg (Downloaded 16 times)
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 15:08 | 15th Post |
| A very quick process in Lightroom then into 'DeFine' one of the NIK filters, then into Photoshop and used the blur brush very finely to blend the noise both on the bird and the sky around the bird. Left the remaining noise so you can see the difference. We have a pair of Osprays nesting not too far from here on my way back to Morecambe, I keep meaning to call by and see what I can get... This may be just the inspiration I need! Had it been a full res image in NEF I could have done a lot more I think. Attachment: Screen Shot 2017-08-28 at 20.03.00.jpg (Downloaded 15 times)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 15:25 | 16th Post |
| So that is from a 36MP image so image it with 1/4 or even a 1/3 less noise and grain from the D850.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 15:26 | 17th Post |
Judith wrote:I had a shot at seagull snapping a couple of weeks ago. Birds are a pain - damned things keep moving!! But this is a very nice shot! BTW prepare for visitors next year in 2018. NC500 beckons but I might get distracted!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 15:31 | 18th Post |
jk wrote:So that is from a 36MP image so image it with 1/4 or even a 1/3 less noise and grain from the D850. No, that's an unprocessed JPEG crop which has also endured the forum software degradation. I would expect that to be twice as good with a well processed non reduced file, posted through Flicker, or viewed on the photographers own screen.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 16:33 | 19th Post |
Lovely gull shot Judith. I am up in Scotland in September...please arrange for same blue sky and obliging birds. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Judith: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 16:58 | 20th Post |
Robert wrote: A very quick process in Lightroom then into 'DeFine' one of the NIK filters, then into Photoshop and used the blur brush very finely to blend the noise both on the bird and the sky around the bird. Left the remaining noise so you can see the difference.Thanks Robert. I haven't investigated Define yet. I'll give it a whirl with the nef when I get time. There are 8 or so pairs of ospreys at the RSPB reserve in Loch Garten which is a fair bit away from me but they fly to the shore at Spey Bay to feed (think its about 50 miles so they earn their snacks).
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| Posted by Judith: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 17:01 | 21st Post |
Eric wrote: Lovely gull shot Judith. I am up in Scotland in September...please arrange for same blue sky and obliging birds.thanks. I shall send prayers to gods of sunshine and blue skies especially for you. Birds are never obliging. September has been nice weather the last couple of years so hopefully you won't bring that Yorkshire misery north with you hehe. Where are you headed?
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| Posted by Judith: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 17:08 | 22nd Post |
jk wrote: So that is from a 36MP image so image it with 1/4 or even a 1/3 less noise and grain from the D850.I am gobsmacked enough at the the performance of the 810. I ain't buying another camera lol. I'll just have to get a better view of the ospreys now that I know how to spot them. That pic was shot at 300mm. To the eye it was a dot in the distance. With decent light, I might actually get a nice shot.
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Aug 28th, 2017 17:48 | 23rd Post |
| Define is pretty good it has a before processing and finishing after processing modes, I only ran the pre mode because it wasn't really a viable image to start with, just a bit of fun! Not sure you would see much more benefit in that image if I had run the post processing mode. If you haven't already downloaded the NIK suit I suggest you do before Google pull it. They have stopped support already. I love the filters, many are very useful. I know you CAN get the same effects within Lightroom and Photoshop but I find the hot spot selection magic, so selective and controllable with no messing about masking. It will be a sad day if Google pull the NIK suit without letting somebody else have it or releasing it to public licence.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Judith: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 06:21 | 24th Post |
| I've got the Nik stuff but have only used Color fx and Silver FX so far. Which program has the hot spot thingy in it?
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| Posted by Bob Bowen: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 06:24 | 25th Post |
| Love the detailed pic of the gull's head.
____________________ Bob Bowen |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 07:06 | 26th Post |
Judith wrote:Eric wrote:Lovely gull shot Judith. I am up in Scotland in September...please arrange for same blue sky and obliging birds.thanks. I shall send prayers to gods of sunshine and blue skies especially for you. Birds are never obliging. September has been nice weather the last couple of years so hopefully you won't bring that Yorkshire misery north with you hehe. Where are you headed? Doing East Coast initially as we've never done that side ...would like to see Dolphins at Chanonry Point if you can schew them down there, please. Then off up North and North West of Altnaharra ....depending on weather. We've done a lot of the West Coast over the years but it MAY still draw us back when we start to return to Yorkshire. Many years ago we went to look at the Ospreys at Loch Garten. We parked a ways down the road and enjoyed sightings of SlavonianGrebes on Loch Morlich before trekking off through the wartleberry looking for Capercailiie. After an hour of wandering, which included almost treading on a female Capercaillie hiding in undergrowth which then exploded into the trees (that's when we saw several sat in trees watching us...didn't expect big bird like that up there!) we somehow managed to arrive at the back of the reserve with everyone watching us. A bit embarrassing ...but got some good views of the Ospreys.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Judith: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 11:37 | 27th Post |
Eric wrote:Doing East Coast initially as we've never done that side ...would like to see Dolphins at Chanonry Point if you can schew them down there, please. Then off up North and North West of Altnaharra ....depending on weather. We've done a lot of the West Coast over the years but it MAY still draw us back when we start to return to Yorkshire.Which parts of the east coast? You'll have to pay our magnificent new bridge over the Forth a visit. It's opening next week. The three bridges together look fab. From there, it's an easy 20 mile hop inland to Falkirk to see the Kelpies. Culross is well worth visiting. http://scotlandwelcomesyou.com/culross-village/ Drive past Dundee, keep driving, do not pass go, do not collect £200. lol that's your get out of jail free card. There's feck all in Aberdeen either of touristy interest but I imagine you're heading inland well before then to get on the A9. As for dolphins...well, I see them pretty regularly from my living room window...brag, brag.. The photo was shot on my cheapo Fuji at 1000mm hence the fuzziness. Loads of boats to take you on dolphin watching trips all along the coast though to get close to them. If you're very lucky you might see some Orcas. My mum came running to get my attention a couple of months ago as she spotted 2 swimming across the bay. Where was I? In the bloody shower, that's where I was. Damn!Attachment: DSCF8394web.jpg (Downloaded 24 times)
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| Posted by jk: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 11:38 | 28th Post |
Nice one Judith. 
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 15:58 | 29th Post |
Judith wrote:Eric wrote:Brilliant capture ...very envious of the view from your window!!Doing East Coast initially as we've never done that side ...would like to see Dolphins at Chanonry Point if you can schew them down there, please. Then off up North and North West of Altnaharra ....depending on weather. We've done a lot of the West Coast over the years but it MAY still draw us back when we start to return to Yorkshire.Which parts of the east coast? You'll have to pay our magnificent new bridge over the Forth a visit. It's opening next week. The three bridges together look fab. From there, it's an easy 20 mile hop inland to Falkirk to see the Kelpies. Culross is well worth visiting. http://scotlandwelcomesyou.com/culross-village/ Not sure exactly where we are going...my events secretary is handling that. I just want a change of scenery and something to test the Fuji. I will however heed your warning note... and avoid showering while around the estuary. We saw the Kelpies and Falkirk Wheel a couple of years ago...very impressive. This time it's more ...just a wander in the wilderness nature holiday. Don't worry...got my Gortex gear ready.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Aug 29th, 2017 17:14 | 30th Post |
Judith wrote:I've got the Nik stuff but have only used Color fx and Silver FX so far. Which program has the hot spot thingy in it? Hi Judith, pretty well all of the Efex Pro 4 filters have it, if applicable. This a pic of my trusty car, after its soaking at Ribblehead. I applied a detail extractor filter to the black vent and the black rubber strip on the front bumper, the second image shows what the affected areas were by adjusting the size and intensity of the control point. The control point in the puddle is negative because the effect spilt over into the puddle, so that can be canceled out with a negative control point. In the second screen shot the dark areas are unaffected by the filter, the white areas are affected by that filter. The image in Colour Efex Pro Detail extractor filter.  The image in the mode where you can see the effect of the control points. there is limited effect in similar shades and textures. That can be cancelled by placing minus control points. It really is good and very controllable, almost magic. No actual masking at all. I could for example prevent it affecting the black headlamp surround by putting a negative control point in the brightest part of the affected area. 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 04:44 | 31st Post |
| I like the strategic parking!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Judith: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 06:07 | 32nd Post |
| Yes, very interesting parking indeed! Ah, so that's what that one does! I've only really used color efex for basic adjustments, not really investigated the nitty gritty bits.
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 12:37 | 33rd Post |
| When it became obvious the rain was going to get heavy I decided to park... Strategically... To avoid needing waders to get out if it did ever fair up! Christopher wasn't so lucky! There are several tutorial available. I watched several before I really got the hang of the finer points. Everybody has their own needs and ways of working, their objectives are often different too so there is no, one size fits all. this is one fairly comprehensive video which gives a pretty good idea of what the various components of the NIK filter can achieve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gikVjBnpTRQ Do a quick search and many others will appear.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Iain: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 17:32 | 34th Post |
| Eric, Did you have VR on? As has been said start with a loose frame to get practice then zoom in tighter once you have got used to it.
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| Posted by Eric: Wed Aug 30th, 2017 19:03 | 35th Post |
Iain wrote:Eric, Did you have VR on? As has been said start with a loose frame to get practice then zoom in tighter once you have got used to it.Yes .....didn't think about it . 1/1000 shutter speed used.... which I gather some people feel might degrade sharpness if VR on.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 02:47 | 36th Post |
| I struggle to remember turning VR on and off, 1,000 sec should stop any movement, VR will just be fluttering trying to make sense of the event. VR definitely degrades my panning race car shots if I forget and leave it on. A bit like panning with a video camera with IS turned on. The image jumps about because the IS is trying to stabilise it but can't. My current strategy is to leave VR off and just turn it on for occasions when I may need it. It isn't smart enough, VR should be able to sense if you are panning and cut out on those occasions. The AF can tell what you are doing, it should message the VR and inform it there is a panning shot in progress.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 05:02 | 37th Post |
Robert wrote:I struggle to remember turning VR on and off, 1,000 sec should stop any movement, VR will just be fluttering trying to make sense of the event. VR definitely degrades my panning race car shots if I forget and leave it on. That's because you have the image stabilisation set to ALL directions. On Fuji and Panasonic cameras (can't remember Nikon) you have 3options: Off, All directions , vertical only.....which allows smooth sideways movement.  I've been reading a lot of reports on the impact of VR when used with fast shutterspeeds. While there is universal agreement that it should be OFF on a tripod and ON when handheld at slow shutter speeds or on a monopod, there seems to be no such agreement with the notion that fast shutterspeeds and VR together downgrade the image quality. Arguments being that the fast shutter speeds will have operated before the VR kicks in. I suppose that may depend on how long you hold the half depress??? The use of VR at high shutter speeds would seem to be more about it being an unnecessary use of battery.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 05:49 | 38th Post |
| I keep VR switched off on my telephoto lenses like 70-200 but have it on for my 24-120 f4. Like I have said many times before it is great for your average punter who wants to just shoot but if you make definite choices about shutter speed, aperture, tripod/hand held, etc then VR needs to be another parameter that you consider. Given a choice I would prefer a cheaper cost of lens versus the same specification lens with VR. Just me.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 07:09 | 39th Post |
jk wrote:I keep VR switched off on my telephoto lenses like 70-200 but have it on for my 24-120 f4. I've got it on all my lenses, not through specific choice, but because the lens I wanted had it anyway. I leave it on for no other reason that I wouldn't remember to switch it on when if I DID need it.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Iain: Thu Aug 31st, 2017 16:46 | 40th Post |
| Although I have different settings for vr I tend to turn it off for bif.
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