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| The Milky WayDeveloping techniques. | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 14:50 | 1st Post |
Last Sunday, (12th November 2017) the sky was so clear I could not resist trying my hand at making some exposures of the Milky Way. Actually almost the entire sky! I had made two sets of star trails, so to try to make good use of the time while I was waiting for the Moon to rise, I pointed the lens vertically up. I couldn't tell at the time but I had the ground visible at each corner of the image in pretty much equal amounts. The 16mm fisheye is 180º across the corners. I also forgot to make a note of where North was. I took about 30 exposures at f2.8 for 25 seconds at ISO 1600, at one minute intervals. Using 'Starry Landscape Stacker', I experimented and using ten images, I stacked them. They were aligned perfectly by the software and that had the result of eliminating noise AND the pesky airplane trails. The software baulks at using images exposed over too great a time span because the earth rotation means shifting the alignment too far within the bounds of the preferred reference frame. I should have also created a similar number of 'dark frames', exposures made at the same time, after the sky exposures with identical settings but with the lens cap on. The stacking software uses the dark frames to deal with dead and hot pixels, to exclude them from the calculations. I cheated! I put the D3 on my desk with the lens cap on and set it off making 30 exposures at the same settings as the original live exposures. I had to alter my usual processing method, zero contrast and slight exposure adjustment is all that is recommended prior to stacking. After stacking, quite extreme adjustments are needed to extract the most from the image. I should have used the mask to shield the corners from the sky processing but I think the bits in the corners would have been a messy distraction.  This is one of the original files with the contrast turned down prior to processing. I have rotated the final image 180º because I believe the original exposure orientation was with North at the bottom. So in the final image I think North is at the top, roughly. 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 14:56 | 2nd Post |
| Superb processing and image.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 15:00 | 3rd Post |
Thank you JK, I currently have stars in my eyes!  I was a bit tired when I first processed the final image but this evening, a bit fresher I had another go and fine tuned it. I am really impressed with this lens, I think there is a bit of CA in the corners but that image is sharp, pretty much all over, even at 100% zoom on the screen. Would probably seem a bit mushy on the D850 but it mates with the D3 perfectly.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 15:51 | 4th Post |
| I have just added my Portfolio site URL to my signature. A full resolution version of this image can be found there. Also another taken the same evening but not stacked.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 19:06 | 5th Post |
| I am in awe of your expertise and night time stamina. Off to bed with my hot milk.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 19:23 | 6th Post |
| Along the bottom of the frame in your last post you have captured the constellation of Taurus with Aldebaran (bulls right nostril) and the Pleiades cluster (bulls belly)....along with surrounding Auriga (Capella is the bright star straight up from Aldebaran)and Perseus. I've cropped this image similarly... Attachment: 7BF31374-AA7A-43BF-A075-FE5464E4C1C2.jpeg (Downloaded 17 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 19:36 | 7th Post |
Never found way to imbed two or more images in same post This is your image cropped similarly. Attachment: 0CEC641B-694D-472D-B4AF-7154D93E93DD.jpeg (Downloaded 17 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 04:28 | 8th Post |
| Thank you Eric, I enjoy it, honestly! I omitted to mention that I gave up waiting for the Moon rise, according to the available data Moon rise was 01:09 that night, at 02:35 it still hadn't shown so as I became rather tired, Christopher had gone to sleep and I hit a 'wall' I packed up and went, I had good hours drive back to Lancaster and it was freezing quite hard. I didn't get the Moon rise. As we drove back through the lanes the Moon hove into sight, it was a lovely laid back crescent Moon which I had really wanted to capture breaking over the rocky crags, next time maybe. Perhaps I may be a bit obsessed with this particular location but it's very isolated, not too hard to reach and seems to enjoy reasonably dark skies, despite the best efforts of the Sellafield nuclear site. The summit of Stickle Pike is not too difficult to reach with stunning views over the Western aspects of the Lake District and part of The Isle of Man is clearly visible. The only person we saw that night was a cyclist, who raced up from the Duddon Valley, turned up towards Stickle Pike and without pausing or slacking speed climbed the steep grassy hill and disappears from sight, he may still be going!!! A motorbike probably wouldn't have been much faster. These athletes never fail to amaze me, when we used to climb Coniston Old Man, runners would pass us on the way up, react the summit and pass us again as they came back, we were still less than half way up!!! Posting more than one image in this forum via the forum image feature isn't possible. In most cases I use Flicker, which has the added advantage I can make the image whatever size I wish and the IQ isn't degraded. The constellations are something of an enigma for me, I know Ursa Major and Polaris/Ursa Minor, now thanks to your prompt last week Orion but most of the others are a mystery, I must find an app which gives a reliable and less 'flowery' map of the stars, currently I use an 'iCandy' app which is pretty good, it shows the location and orientation of the stars in real time but the names only stay visible for a second or two before they fade from the screen, which is less than useful. I want to be able to study them and get them into my head. It needs more than a second or two to do that. Apparently from the star map you posted the bottom of my second star image is North? I have been trying to find Ursa Major and Polaris to confirm the orientation but am uncertain what do you think? I was going by the upper right corner of the second image which shows a farmstead in the Duddon valley which is to the North West of our location, so I rotated the finished image 180º so the farm was at the bottom left of the frame and north at the bottom. Which is how I usually view this scene, perhaps North should be at the top? Whoops, things to do! BBL
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 05:01 | 9th Post |
| I use Star Walk app on the iPad. If you switch off the annoying sounds! You get all the satelittes, Hubble and the ISS floating by in real time. The constellations can be a bit vague to see. Those ancients had fanciful ideas! Skywalk allows you to overlay or lose these graphics by slight movement and zooming in/out. The following two screen grabs are a minuscule sideways movement causing the Orion graphic to fade and Taurus to come out. I've chosen these two as it links Orion (that you now know) with Taurus (as discussed above). You will see Aldebaran is actually the link star between the two constellations. Viz the star on the bulls right nostril is also the star on Orions club .... with which he is wellying poor old Taurus! Adeosll is a satellite passing underneath Aldebaran. Attachment: 91B69110-85DB-48DF-84D9-91D3DB05834A.jpeg (Downloaded 17 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 05:02 | 10th Post |
| and then.... Attachment: 34B07261-D9B2-4968-BA8B-944A4070E1B9.jpeg (Downloaded 17 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 05:06 | 11th Post |
| Hubble is currently creeping up on Centaurus ... from behind!! Attachment: E4C68369-632E-42DC-A83A-5EF06F60660D.jpeg (Downloaded 16 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 05:19 | 12th Post |
| If you don't like the fanciful graphics, you can have other overlays...like a simple line drawing. I find StarWalk very good. Attachment: B13B744C-82DD-4114-9F28-2BCA2582347A.jpeg (Downloaded 16 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 10:15 | 13th Post |
| So from that it would appear that my finished image has North at the bottom... I have looked on the app store, there seem to be multiple apps called Star Walk, I have included a screenshot from my iPad I have put a red rectangle around the one I think you mean, please will you confirm, I don't mind the fee, provided it's the one you are recommending. Having read some of the blurb it sounds better than mine, which is called Night Sky. I also use Moon Plus which is a simple Moon calculator, it gives useful data rise and set times together with the exact state, waxing or waning and percentage of full. Attachment: Star Walk app.PNG (Downloaded 15 times)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 10:38 | 14th Post |
| Yes that is Star Walk ....but my version predates all these. It doesn't have a 2 or even a 1 after its name. It was also FREE back then and has no adverts....prob 2 years ago. So it looks like they have joined the 'let's put ads in the free version so people can pay to get rid of them' brigade. I would try the free Star Walk 2 version first. It it offers benefits but falls short in some way....may be upgrading to the non advert version might bring you more. The price is okay...but there's no point in buying another app if it doesn't help you enough to retire your current app.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 11:44 | 15th Post |
| I use Night Sky on my iPad. I think it is free. It is excellent and you can customise it to show satellites, star names, etc,
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 14:42 | 16th Post |
jk wrote:I use Night Sky on my iPad. I think it is free. Yes, that's the one I have JK, the names and things fade away in a few seconds, before I can figure where they are they and what they say, they have gone! I will have a tinker, maybe there is a setting to fix that? I have found the pref's for 'Night Sky' I have turned off the glass figures and enlarged the text. Will try that for a while. Mind you... It seems think the Sun has risen, some hours ago???
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Iain: Tue Nov 21st, 2017 05:18 | 17th Post |
| Nice shot Robert.
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| Posted by amazing50: Tue Nov 21st, 2017 20:31 | 18th Post |
| Southern Ontario is now the overcast capital of Canada. Hard to get a clear night and the Council just spent $3,000,000 to replace all our sodium lights with diode.
____________________ There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept ;~) Mike Grace |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 03:48 | 19th Post |
| Thanks Iain, I was quite surprised how much colour there is in the apparently black and white image. I think the D3 sensor has something to do with that. I am having issues with banding on the D3, I need to do some tests to work out what the envelope is. I have cut the exposure times from 30 seconds to 25 and increased the interval between exposures from every 40 seconds to every minute but some of those images I took last Sunday (12th Nov) suffered quite badly with regular horizontal banding. The star stacking software seems to remove the banding together with the aeroplane trails but I would be happier if it wasn't there in the first place. It must be causing artefacts in the finished image. Hi Mike, light pollution is an issue wherever you are, except in very isolated places or islands in the ocean. Replacing sodium lamps must be an improvement over here they are replacing piecemeal, if a lamp fails it's replaced with LED but otherwise we continue to 'enjoy' an orange cast. On my street it's about half and half! Light pollution from large cities is said to affect up to 200 miles away. In England that means you can almost never get away from it completely. North West Scotland would be the best bet from here, that means a 400 mile drive. Predictable clear skies are something of a rarity in Scotland. This is why I am so excited about the Stickle Pike location, it's reasonably high and quite dark, except for the Windscale nuclear facility up the coast which is the size of a small town. It's hidden behind hills so it's just a relatively small glow really.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 04:58 | 20th Post |
Robert wrote:Thanks Iain, I was quite surprised how much colour there is in the apparently black and white image. I think the D3 sensor has something to do with that. You don't have to go that far Robert. Kielder Forest is one of the best Dark Sky locations in the Uk... http://www.visitkielder.com/play/discover/dark-skies?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu6yd8vTR1wIVzzLTCh1M6wTCEAAYAiAAEgIh9fD_BwE
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 06:54 | 21st Post |
Eric wrote:You don't have to go that far Robert. Kielder Forest is one of the best Dark Sky locations in the UK... Interesting Eric, thanks for reminding me. Kielder is something of a blank area to me, I have never been. Not directly accessible from here. Mind you, 130miles and about two and a half hrs. driving is better than 400+ miles and a days driving (both doubled because I WILL be coming back) ! LOL Having looked at the link you kindly provided, I am a bit horrified at the hoards of visitors they claim, but perhaps in the depths of November or December, late at night, most of them will be tucked up in bed. Maybe I can find a quiet corner where I can set up and enjoy a peaceful night photographing the stars without some clown shining their torch (or bright LED pushbike headlamp) at me. Just checked the weather for Ulpha and Kielder next Tuesday (28th Nov) and Wednesday (29th Nov) Ulpha is forecast all night clear skies, Kielder isn't forecast a clear night sky in the next ten days. I will keep a watch though, next time a clear night is forecast I will make the trip if I can.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 11:57 | 22nd Post |
Robert wrote:Eric wrote: Kielder is a big area....even got caravan campsite? Don't think you would have problem getting away from people. We have a designated dark sky area near us at east barsham. We decided to go there on a lunar eclipse some years ago. Set off as the eclipse was starting, clearly visible in KL. Arrived at east barsham in fog! Sat with the astological society members for a mind numbing eternity, drinking weak coffee and being thoroughly bored [what anoraks!!). Drove home and fog lifted as we approached KL. watched the end of the eclipse clearly in the back garden.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 13:43 | 23rd Post |
Eric wrote:
Have been studying the OS online maps, seems to be about the same size as Windermere, with a bend and a bigger dam. No doubt I will find somewhere quiet. Eric wrote: We have a designated dark sky area near us at east barsham. We decided to go there on a lunar eclipse some years ago. Set off as the eclipse was starting, clearly visible in KL. Arrived at east barsham in fog! Sat with the astological society members for a mind numbing eternity, drinking weak coffee and being thoroughly bored [what anoraks!!). Drove home and fog lifted as we approached KL. watched the end of the eclipse clearly in the back garden. Perhaps we should proclaim Field Towers a designated dark sky area with better weather! A visit to the Canary Islands might be a better guarantee of good cloud free skies? My friend Len goes there most years for a couple of weeks in winter, cheap as chips he reckons. Can you take bikes and large heavy tripods on aeroplanes... Maybe not.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 15:23 | 24th Post |
| Right on cue, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42059551 An article on light pollution. In this image, the Kielder region does indeed seem to be an oasis of darkness. I had assumed the North East, Tyneside conurbation would have been a contaminant but perhaps the intervening hills block the light. From what I have read, city light sources can affect dark skies up to 200 miles away. Attachment: Screen Shot 2017-11-22 at 20.16.05.jpg (Downloaded 11 times)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 16:35 | 25th Post |
Robert wrote:Eric wrote: If there were 3 of you...you could take a leg each.....and hire a bike. Or you could contact a photographer or star watcher and borrow some gear.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 16:49 | 26th Post |
Robert wrote:Right on cue, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42059551 They did a closer look at Norfolk.....the big yellow spot over Kings Lynn is Jan...LEAVING THE LIGHTS ON AGAIN!!  Attachment: 2891E354-4B76-4179-9FE6-F1841A1D19FB.jpeg (Downloaded 11 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 17:32 | 27th Post |
Or residual heat off the LUMIX sensor?  The North coast seems pretty dark judging from that map, but then it's pretty flat so Norwich, perhaps KL and even Boston lights may show on the horizon.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 11:10 | 28th Post |
Robert wrote:Or residual heat off the LUMIX sensor? It's not that flat in North Norfolk! Having trained for London Mararhon (1984) I can attest to some gradients. Jan used to drive me out 20miles every Sunday and drop me off. Then she would park up with refreshments every 5 miles on route home....I would grab a drink, drop cup, she'd pick it up and drive on to next stop. Took wrong turn one day and got home before she did....she was not amused being left on country roadside for more than an hour....and I was desperate for a drink! It was a frosty atmosphere in the household that evening. Heres hoping you have got dry feet today Robert.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 11:28 | 29th Post |
Eric wrote:Heres hoping you have got dry feet today Robert. Yes, lovely day here today, bit windy and a little showery but nothing to get excited about. It rained a bit yesterday. Created a bit of chaos, have to drive to Lancaster tomorrow so I will probably see some of the aftermath. The A590 and the M6 were closed several times yesterday and overnight due to flooding and accidents. Speaking to a lorry driver buddy who was on the M6 yesterday, a BMW driver flew past his truck and maybe thinking he could walk on water, hit a flooded patch, aquaplaned and proceed to spin into the central reservation, resulting in my mate having to wait two and a half hours for the resulting mess to be cleared before he could deliver his load of stone. Modern cars are too insular, way too smooth and comfortable, drivers seem to think they are invincible. Then, suddenly the laws of physics take over, Bang!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 11:42 | 30th Post |
Robert wrote:Eric wrote: It was this image caption that prompted the comment... Attachment: 73BB0DEC-307F-4D92-BFC3-5C9EA641577B.jpeg (Downloaded 8 times)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Fri Nov 24th, 2017 16:00 | 31st Post |
| This pic only just become visible, That's a common sight in Carnforth, every time there's a bit of a storm it floods, my ex-motherinlaw lives but a stones throw from the station, her cellar regularly floods when the Lancaster canal overflows. Apparently some of the problems in Lancaster were caused by the canal banks being breached by overflowing water. Lancaster canal it somewhat unusual in that from Preston to Tuitfields, just North of Carnforth, it's a single level, no locks for 41 miles, apparently the longest stretch of level canal in the UK, except to access the sea via Glasson Dock. This means there is a copious supply of water to sustain a breach, because there are no locks, the whole canal could be drained from one breach.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Fri Nov 24th, 2017 16:10 | 32nd Post |
| If things go according to plan (they seldom do!) I will be visiting Kielder on Monday night and Tuesday. The forecast is currently showing clear skies Monday and Tuesday nights so we may get some opportunity to take some 'dark sky' photo's. The Moon sets around midnight so after that the skies should be pretty dark. We will see, if snow doesn't spoil the party. It the least we should benefit from the reconnoiter and be better placed to visit again in the future and go straight to suitable sites rather than having to start from scratch. Google earth being our friend here.
____________________ Robert. |
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