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| Are we getting too hung up about noise and colour accuracy? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by Robert: Fri Feb 8th, 2019 03:44 | 1st Post |
| I have just browsed through a list of images from an international garden photographer of the year competition. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-47118130 Many of the images contain significant noise and in some, pastel shades dominate. While they are lovely images, I doubt if they are particularly accurate colour wise. My question is, does this really matter when we are making artistic images. If you examine paintings, even the work of the great masters, brush strokes are plainly visible, they form the image. Film and paper processing uses fine dots to create the image, so why can't digital photography contain some element of noise, as a part of the image. I accept for documentary and product photography, colour accuracy and sharpness are important but does that hold true for artistic photography, with which I believe we are mainly concerned?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Fri Feb 8th, 2019 05:05 | 2nd Post |
| It is always the picture that matters. The content, light and composition make it. Noise can be distracting.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Feb 8th, 2019 05:24 | 3rd Post |
Robert wrote:I have just browsed through a list of images from an international garden photographer of the year competition. You are probably quite right, old sage.  I will try less hard in future. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Feb 8th, 2019 05:48 | 4th Post |
| Looking at Iain and Jeffs photos (I am sure they won't mind me saying) one thing leaps out at me. It's the proximity they are to many of their subjects in the images. Their exif data (thank you Flickr) typically gives subject distances of c.6m. They are fortunate having access to 'private' reserves/ special locations which will no doubt be quieter, more intimate with the subject and frankly easier to orchestrate ....on many occasions. With the exception of the recent woodland birds photos, I am normally having to rely on bird 'watching' public hides (RSPB/Wildlife Trust etc) which are geared more for people with binoculars and scopes than meagre length lenses. So typically I am more often 10-15m away, fighting with a dozen other people for the best spot and being frustrated with the disturbing noise they make!! There's a lot more serendipity about these sort of photography situations. As a result the final images are less controlled or predictable. That's my misfortune and it doesn't matter in the context of this thread. But what it means is that the amount of cropping I need to do (given we have similar equipment, lighting etc) and computer processing ....are potentially going to be greater and the side effects of that (less sharp, more noise) inescapable. What I am trying to say, in a rambling sort of way, is that I agree I'm probably thinking too much about noise because the real bonus will come from putting effort into finding better locations and improving field craft such that the subjects need less cropping and hence benefit from less amplification of side effects.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by blackfox: Sat Feb 9th, 2019 17:56 | 5th Post |
Hmmm right and wrong Eric , I live on the virtual edge of the Dee estuary which gives me a vast area to cover .. , for my small bird shots I use a hide on a small reserve that's not that well known and luckily the wildlife trust have allowed us to set it up for photography rather than bird watching ,but this has caused tensions and even full out rows at times, ..for birds of prey and waders I have several fave spots all around the coast which I tend to go to weekdays and when the kids are in school .. some involve walking a lot of the times though I simply use the mobile hide , you got one to 4x4 ...  now you may have noticed I take a lot of gulls , most are taken either onthe green outside the house or down at the castle on the estuary , a few slices of crumbled up bread will make you a instant gull attractor ,,, silly question I always have a few bags of different types of bird food in my pocket I.e mealworms ,peanuts , white hearts etc .. if you spot a interesting stone or stump as you walk along put some seed down and come back slowly 15 minutes later .. , if you can find a lay by in a quiet spot with anti.gypo boulders beside it pull up put some seed on the rocks and wait . Something will spot it quickly usually .. as spring comes along a pair of secateurs and some fishing bank sticks will come in handy to put some nice flowering shrubs near your seeded rock or stump ... for the birds to pose on .. .. do you want me to come and hold the camera for ya as well
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| Posted by blackfox: Sat Feb 9th, 2019 18:01 | 6th Post |
like this Eric , background is just grass in bokeh  proud as punch by jeff and jan cohen, on Flickror this same spot by some gypsy stones in a lay by , hide was a mondeo  wishfull thinking by jeff and jan cohen, on Flickr
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| Posted by Robert: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 03:03 | 7th Post |
| Beautiful images Jeff, good bokeh. Difficult to achieve that in PS. Thanks for the explanations on hides. I have an opportunity to photograph a black and white woodpecker who two or three times a day attacks a telegraph pole, it's in a car park, I am thinking I might sit in the car for the day and try to catch it with the D300 and the 300mm lens. Given my luck it will take the day off! I am trying out the new text edit window, obviously intended for members with poor eyesight!  This is the view from near the telegraph pole. To Chris: It appears there may be a broken link somewhere? This pano image is in my gallery. I dragged and dropped it into the edit window.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 03:11 | 8th Post |
| Fantastic detail in those images Jeff. Love the colour and composition. That new lens is working well for you. If you lived closer by I would lend you my D500!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 03:21 | 9th Post |
| Re the use of bait/food this is very contentious. Many photogragraphers and bird people are against the use of food to bring the birds closer but in reality the birds always go to a food source no matter what. Fieldcraft allows you to get to good locations but there is no guarantee of success if there are the wrong birds there! It is also a question of patience. I am afraid that I prefer using my car/4x4 as it gives me opportunity to have my kit under cover and I dont have to carry it for miles. Also my knowledge of the different birds and their habitat is pretty limited except for some species.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 03:21 | 10th Post |
jk wrote:Fantastic detail in those images Jeff.Another test post, quoting JK. Another attempt to post an image... D200 with Nikkor 300mm f/2.8, @ f/2.8 Much to the distain of the 'pro' who was coaching us, who suggested I should be using f/5.6 at least...  To Chris: I used drag and drip from large image on gallery, displays well in 'modern editor' window. Robert
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 03:32 | 11th Post |
Robert wrote:jk wrote:A double quote... It appears the 'modern editor' doesn't strip the previous quote... We still get nested quotes, at the moment!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by blackfox: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 05:07 | 12th Post |
| Both of those are canon images Jonathon , taken on a 1Dmkiii which is a very old camera with a 1.3 crop sensor of 10mp ... . My lad was with me at the time using a D750 and Nikon 500 f4 and tbh there is very little in the finished images .. I'm still Hovering over either a D3 or D3s ... I really do think that the rush towards mega pixels has lost something along the way As for feeding the birds , I don't consider it to be baiting at all , quite often I get the shots as I'm on walkabout before putting food down , and I leave some food behind as a offering . The gulls at home are trained now if I go out to the car they stay on the rooftops , the minute I cross the road and step on the green I have several flying overhead .. 
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| Posted by jk: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 16:02 | 13th Post |
| Nothing wrong with Canon or Fuji or others. I use a Canon Sureshot G12 as a small walkabout camera. It is superb.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Sun Feb 10th, 2019 16:05 | 14th Post |
| If you want a D3s Jeff then I have a very low use one that I will sell. It will come with dual battery charger. I also have a D700 with battery pack which I would let go. D700 is a D3 without the heavy battery as it uses the smaller battery found in the D300. The battery grip adds in the bigger battery from the D3 or you can use two D300 batteries or AA cells (not recommended). I dont have the inserts here in UK but can post to you as soon as I go back to Spain if you wanted the D700. The battery grip has a D3 battery in it currently. PM me an offer if you are interested.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by blackfox: Mon Feb 11th, 2019 12:07 | 15th Post |
| sent you a p.m Jonathon
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| Posted by jk: Mon Feb 11th, 2019 15:38 | 16th Post |
| This is for Eric and Robert to show I have excellent fieldcraft. Seagull, see the inner eyelid. 
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Mon Feb 11th, 2019 16:09 | 17th Post |
| Even Flickr crushes the quality of the above image from the Z7.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Mon Feb 11th, 2019 16:10 | 18th Post |
blackfox wrote:sent you a p.m Jonathon I will reply tomorrow Jeff. Busy at present.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Feb 11th, 2019 16:35 | 19th Post |
<user=2><font color='ff0000'><b>jk</font></user> wrote:</b>Even Flickr crushes the quality of the above image from the Z7.Scarcely surprising, Flicker would grind to a standstill if it were dealing with too many Z7 images at full res/bit depth! LOL Have a feeling that is one reason for the 1000 images limit. Too many ultra high res images being uploaded.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Feb 11th, 2019 16:44 | 20th Post |
<user=2><font color='ff0000'><b>jk</font></user> wrote:</b>This is for Eric and Robert to show I have excellent fieldcraft.Not sure the seagull is too impressed!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Mon Feb 11th, 2019 17:25 | 21st Post |
| They are a real pest as they are like rats screaming for food or stealing it from people who are unaware!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Pam: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 00:11 | 22nd Post |
| Vermin, but protected. We even have some idiots feed them. In Barrow they harass people around the fast food outlets. Test post. Robert
____________________ Pam http://www.pendlewitches.co.uk/ |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 00:14 | 23rd Post |
| No, still not working, cleared last hour's catch, logged out, logged back in as 'Pam' made post, logged back in as Robert, clicked on green arrow, landed in post 1.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by blackfox: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 04:51 | 24th Post |
| Lots of changes around here , rob/Pam if your going the whole hog , you'll have to shave that beard off it's a give away . Have you thought about joining transvestites are us .com
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| Posted by jk: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 11:24 | 25th Post |
| Jeff, best be careful as Rob knows where you live. He may come and flash his skirts at you!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by blackfox: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 11:43 | 26th Post |
quite sure he wouldn't be out of place , this is Wales boyo 
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| Posted by jk: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 12:15 | 27th Post |
| And the sheep are nervous!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 13:39 | 28th Post |
| Either I missed something or this diet is reducing my brain cells as well....who the hell is Pam and the Pendlewitches?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 14:02 | 29th Post |
| Rob has been trying out a new identity! I am wondering if we need to worry or send him some medication. It could be that one of those cobble stones have popped up and done him a mischief!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Feb 12th, 2019 16:25 | 30th Post |
jk wrote:Rob has been trying out a new identity! I am wondering if we need to worry or send him some medication. It could be that one of those cobble stones have popped up and done him a mischief! Reckon he's been talking too much to Bjorn. 
____________________ Eric |
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