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| Power of Software.Does nikon underestimate the importance of SoftWare ? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by novicius: Sat Apr 8th, 2023 23:52 | 1st Post |
| Among other things,at times the camera`s do not get the white balance right,no matter what I try , but my smart phone gets it right the first time. I thought it was just me being a klutz, but then I read this here article : https://petapixel.com/2023/04/05/what-canon-nikon-and-sony-need-to-learn-from-apple-and-google-before-its-too-late/?fbclid=IwAR1NHAud490d2QJozZKINptVOpkxlLSL2zHWr2Xi1iQSdnt295txsq4bXsI Can you see his point ?
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by chrisbet: Sun Apr 9th, 2023 14:33 | 2nd Post |
| No - if I want an auto snap I use the phone camera - if I want to be in control then I use the Nikon - the great thing is that nowdays with digital cameras you can review the results and adjust accordingly.
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Apr 9th, 2023 21:48 | 3rd Post |
| I think they are unfairly comparing apples with pears. If you can fill the frame with the subject using an iPhone camera and view it on a computer screen, you can get a good reproduction of what you saw. Attempt to crop or sectionally enlarge and the image quality drops off rapidly. There are novel supposed manual control features like fstop ‘selection’…..wrong. It’s a software blur filter to approximate control of the depth of focus. Trouble is, it tends to mess up the selection areas, causing edge effects of incorrect focus. Clever but no cigar! Working with small sensors, wide apertures and fast shutter speeds phones achieve a clever balancing act of subject/camera stability, light gathering and focus depth. But try to intervene and take real control for specific photographic results and you need something more. It’s all about being ‘fit for purpose’.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Iain: Mon Apr 10th, 2023 14:52 | 4th Post |
Eric wrote:I think they are unfairly comparing apples with pears.I agree. My son used to ask me to print a photo off his phone to A4, IQ c**p. He eventually learned and got a proper camera.
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| Posted by novicius: Sat Apr 22nd, 2023 03:35 | 5th Post |
| No-one has read the article then..it is not about the phone being a camera,it is about camera software vs. phone software, where the phone`s software is vastly superior ,white balance is one of many areas where camera mfgrs. can learn a great deal among many other things,and it is not about price either as phones can be a rather costly commodity.
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by chrisbet: Sat Apr 22nd, 2023 12:45 | 6th Post |
| Yes, I read the article. He lost credibilty for me when he said - "Wouldn’t it be great if your camera downloaded the local weather and automatically configured your camera settings? Yes, most modern cameras try to guess what the white balance should be, but why guess? Just check if it’s cloudy." - anyone who relies on weather forecasts to predict local weather is loony and suggesting that clouds are the only factor in changing white balance suggests he has no idea what he is talking about. Phone software is optimised for phones - just because the phone with its software is "better"? at getting the white balance automatically doesn't mean that the camera software is inferior. Cameras take more user involvement to attain the same or better wb. You can also bracket wb and select the most pleasing / accurate. The point I was making is that the camera and its software gives me greater creative control whereas the phone and its software is better for "instant" snaps where I have no time to set up. Having better "auto" software in the camera is irrelevant for me as I don't use auto mode.
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Apr 22nd, 2023 15:52 | 7th Post |
| I thought what he is trying to say is because the phones software is better at getting settings right for the phones camera, the camera manufacturers need to catch up. That might be true. What he is not saying is that despite some software superiority there are some howling omissions that prevent a phone being the camera of choice for most serious photographers. Yes I know people have done professional photos and videos using phones and make excellent results but they do it by managing the phone/software limitations to almost prove it can be done. As I said earlier, I would never choose a camera for serious work that did not allow the user to change apertures. The iPhone 14 pro doesn’t !
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Tue Apr 25th, 2023 16:17 | 8th Post |
Eric wrote:I thought what he is trying to say is because the phones software is better at getting settings right for the phones camera, the camera manufacturers need to catch up. That might be true.I agree with Eric. However there is a nice free app for the iPhone that allows you to control most features like a normal/proper camera. See Apple AppStore.. Manual Camera 4 https://apps.apple.com/en/app/manual-camera-4/id916568801
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by chrisbet: Tue Apr 25th, 2023 16:41 | 9th Post |
jk wrote:However there is a nice free app for the iPhoneErm can I have some "free" fivers??
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by jk: Tue Apr 25th, 2023 17:05 | 10th Post |
| I got mine so long ago it is/was free! Well worth a £5 Alternative is.... https://apps.apple.com/en/app/manual-raw-camera/id917146276 Cheaper at £3.99 or with ads it is free.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Apr 25th, 2023 19:06 | 11th Post |
jk wrote:I got mine so long ago it is/was free!Don’t understand how they can control true focus depth without fstop control….and I thought the iPhone had limited fstop range ie no f16
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Apr 25th, 2023 19:15 | 12th Post |
| Incidentally I was in discussion with a video nut (friend) yesterday about the jerking caused when camera is fighting its onboard image stabilisation that he gets when panning. Of course we went through the moving picture not moving camera debate. But he showed me a video of him cycling through Indian streets (traffic, cattle, pedestrian mayhem) and his GoPro camera strapped to his bike was absolutely rock solid stable. Even on potholed streets, swerving around moped and scooter maniacs …even when he hit a grate in the road and fell over the handlebars….it recorded it. without any issues. So picking up this theme of why haven’t Nikon, Sony, Canon et al matched the iphone? Why isnt the image stabilisation on DSLRs as good as a go pro?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by chrisbet: Tue Apr 25th, 2023 19:46 | 13th Post |
| I have a Canon XL1S videocam with optical stabilisation - it is also rock solid when panning or tilting. The GoPro & Iphone don't (as far as I know) use mechanics - they work by cropping the image and shuffling the viewed area around in the limits of the sensor electronically. Obviously this is faster and doesn't suffer inertia issues of moving parts - the VR lens assy and its associated gyros in Nikon lenses. The XL1S does both - it uses a variable prism in the lens followed by image analysis on the CCDs (it has 3).
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Apr 25th, 2023 20:55 | 14th Post |
chrisbet wrote:I have a Canon XL1S videocam with optical stabilisation - it is also rock solid when panning or tilting.If your explanation of how go pro &phones handle stabilisation is correct then it sort of adds weight to the op that cameras are lagging behind phones in some functionality. I don’t know how dedicated video cameras handle stabilisation v panning but on DSLRs the stabilisation fights against the camera movement generating (albeit minute) judders. You have to be an anorak to see them (like my mate) but I have noticed occasional frames losing sharpness when following birds in flight. On the Sony large lenses designed for wildlife & sports you have the option to switch off 1) horizontal stabilisation or 2) vertical stabilisation or 3) both…which to me suggests a recognition that their camera movements can be a battle with their stabilising system. When I switch off horizontal stabilisation I see less ‘rough’ frames….the ones I have, are clearly me!!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by chrisbet: Tue Apr 25th, 2023 22:11 | 15th Post |
| I surmise that the issue is the slowness or lag in the DSLR system - the gyros have to sense the movement - tell the CPU - CPU tells the vr coils to move the lens - they react and you get the judder. Maybe small fractions of a second but way slower than electronics. But then the stills camera was never really intended for video! Video cams have this buttoned up but are useless at taking stills - 6.5 seconds to record a still on the XL1S! Yes I can run the XL1S in frame mode at 25 fps and get reasonable images. I have tried using the iPad for video - it is OK on stabilisation but rubbish zooming in and out - like big jumps! Smart phones for communicating, DSLRs for stills and videocam for movies. Simplez really!
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by Eric: Mon May 1st, 2023 09:44 | 16th Post |
| I tend to agree with that summary, although the newer Sony cameras, with Sony’s foundation in video, are excellent at video. They just need to get the buttons in ergonomic positions and slicker menus. I didn’t appreciate that was how phones and go pro handle stabilisation. However, accepting your categorisation and each items strengths and weaknesses, it does support the OP that there are some features in phones (eg better stabilisation) that camera manufacturers are missing out on.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Wed May 10th, 2023 15:04 | 17th Post |
| chrisbet wrote: Smart phones for communicating, DSLRs for stills and videocam for movies. Simplez really! Yes I so agree. If you want to do a good job then get the right tools. The old saying of "when you only have a hammer then everything looks like a nail!"
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by chrisbet: Thu May 11th, 2023 12:33 | 18th Post |
| More a case of using a screwdriver as a chisel!
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| This is topic ID = 1972 | ||
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