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| Moderated by: chrisbet, | ||
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novicius
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Among other things,at times the camera`s do not get the white balance right,no matter what I try , but my smart phone gets it right the first time. I thought it was just me being a klutz, but then I read this here article : https://petapixel.com/2023/04/05/what-canon-nikon-and-sony-need-to-learn-from-apple-and-google-before-its-too-late/?fbclid=IwAR1NHAud490d2QJozZKINptVOpkxlLSL2zHWr2Xi1iQSdnt295txsq4bXsI Can you see his point ? |
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chrisbet
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No - if I want an auto snap I use the phone camera - if I want to be in control then I use the Nikon - the great thing is that nowdays with digital cameras you can review the results and adjust accordingly. |
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Eric
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I think they are unfairly comparing apples with pears. If you can fill the frame with the subject using an iPhone camera and view it on a computer screen, you can get a good reproduction of what you saw. Attempt to crop or sectionally enlarge and the image quality drops off rapidly. There are novel supposed manual control features like fstop ‘selection’…..wrong. It’s a software blur filter to approximate control of the depth of focus. Trouble is, it tends to mess up the selection areas, causing edge effects of incorrect focus. Clever but no cigar! Working with small sensors, wide apertures and fast shutter speeds phones achieve a clever balancing act of subject/camera stability, light gathering and focus depth. But try to intervene and take real control for specific photographic results and you need something more. It’s all about being ‘fit for purpose’. |
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Iain
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Eric wrote:I think they are unfairly comparing apples with pears.I agree. My son used to ask me to print a photo off his phone to A4, IQ c**p. He eventually learned and got a proper camera. |
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novicius
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No-one has read the article then..it is not about the phone being a camera,it is about camera software vs. phone software, where the phone`s software is vastly superior ,white balance is one of many areas where camera mfgrs. can learn a great deal among many other things,and it is not about price either as phones can be a rather costly commodity. |
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chrisbet
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Yes, I read the article. He lost credibilty for me when he said - "Wouldn’t it be great if your camera downloaded the local weather and automatically configured your camera settings? Yes, most modern cameras try to guess what the white balance should be, but why guess? Just check if it’s cloudy." - anyone who relies on weather forecasts to predict local weather is loony and suggesting that clouds are the only factor in changing white balance suggests he has no idea what he is talking about. Phone software is optimised for phones - just because the phone with its software is "better"? at getting the white balance automatically doesn't mean that the camera software is inferior. Cameras take more user involvement to attain the same or better wb. You can also bracket wb and select the most pleasing / accurate. The point I was making is that the camera and its software gives me greater creative control whereas the phone and its software is better for "instant" snaps where I have no time to set up. Having better "auto" software in the camera is irrelevant for me as I don't use auto mode. |
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Eric
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I thought what he is trying to say is because the phones software is better at getting settings right for the phones camera, the camera manufacturers need to catch up. That might be true. What he is not saying is that despite some software superiority there are some howling omissions that prevent a phone being the camera of choice for most serious photographers. Yes I know people have done professional photos and videos using phones and make excellent results but they do it by managing the phone/software limitations to almost prove it can be done. As I said earlier, I would never choose a camera for serious work that did not allow the user to change apertures. The iPhone 14 pro doesn’t ! |
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jk
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Eric wrote:I thought what he is trying to say is because the phones software is better at getting settings right for the phones camera, the camera manufacturers need to catch up. That might be true.I agree with Eric. However there is a nice free app for the iPhone that allows you to control most features like a normal/proper camera. See Apple AppStore.. Manual Camera 4 https://apps.apple.com/en/app/manual-camera-4/id916568801 |
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chrisbet
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jk wrote:However there is a nice free app for the iPhoneErm can I have some "free" fivers?? |
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jk
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I got mine so long ago it is/was free! Well worth a £5 Alternative is.... https://apps.apple.com/en/app/manual-raw-camera/id917146276 Cheaper at £3.99 or with ads it is free. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:I got mine so long ago it is/was free!Don’t understand how they can control true focus depth without fstop control….and I thought the iPhone had limited fstop range ie no f16 |
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Eric
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Incidentally I was in discussion with a video nut (friend) yesterday about the jerking caused when camera is fighting its onboard image stabilisation that he gets when panning. Of course we went through the moving picture not moving camera debate. But he showed me a video of him cycling through Indian streets (traffic, cattle, pedestrian mayhem) and his GoPro camera strapped to his bike was absolutely rock solid stable. Even on potholed streets, swerving around moped and scooter maniacs …even when he hit a grate in the road and fell over the handlebars….it recorded it. without any issues. So picking up this theme of why haven’t Nikon, Sony, Canon et al matched the iphone? Why isnt the image stabilisation on DSLRs as good as a go pro? |
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chrisbet
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I have a Canon XL1S videocam with optical stabilisation - it is also rock solid when panning or tilting. The GoPro & Iphone don't (as far as I know) use mechanics - they work by cropping the image and shuffling the viewed area around in the limits of the sensor electronically. Obviously this is faster and doesn't suffer inertia issues of moving parts - the VR lens assy and its associated gyros in Nikon lenses. The XL1S does both - it uses a variable prism in the lens followed by image analysis on the CCDs (it has 3). |
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Eric
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chrisbet wrote:I have a Canon XL1S videocam with optical stabilisation - it is also rock solid when panning or tilting.If your explanation of how go pro &phones handle stabilisation is correct then it sort of adds weight to the op that cameras are lagging behind phones in some functionality. I don’t know how dedicated video cameras handle stabilisation v panning but on DSLRs the stabilisation fights against the camera movement generating (albeit minute) judders. You have to be an anorak to see them (like my mate) but I have noticed occasional frames losing sharpness when following birds in flight. On the Sony large lenses designed for wildlife & sports you have the option to switch off 1) horizontal stabilisation or 2) vertical stabilisation or 3) both…which to me suggests a recognition that their camera movements can be a battle with their stabilising system. When I switch off horizontal stabilisation I see less ‘rough’ frames….the ones I have, are clearly me!! |
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chrisbet
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I surmise that the issue is the slowness or lag in the DSLR system - the gyros have to sense the movement - tell the CPU - CPU tells the vr coils to move the lens - they react and you get the judder. Maybe small fractions of a second but way slower than electronics. But then the stills camera was never really intended for video! Video cams have this buttoned up but are useless at taking stills - 6.5 seconds to record a still on the XL1S! Yes I can run the XL1S in frame mode at 25 fps and get reasonable images. I have tried using the iPad for video - it is OK on stabilisation but rubbish zooming in and out - like big jumps! Smart phones for communicating, DSLRs for stills and videocam for movies. Simplez really! |
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Eric
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I tend to agree with that summary, although the newer Sony cameras, with Sony’s foundation in video, are excellent at video. They just need to get the buttons in ergonomic positions and slicker menus. I didn’t appreciate that was how phones and go pro handle stabilisation. However, accepting your categorisation and each items strengths and weaknesses, it does support the OP that there are some features in phones (eg better stabilisation) that camera manufacturers are missing out on. |
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jk
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chrisbet wrote: Smart phones for communicating, DSLRs for stills and videocam for movies. Simplez really! Yes I so agree. If you want to do a good job then get the right tools. The old saying of "when you only have a hammer then everything looks like a nail!" |
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chrisbet
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More a case of using a screwdriver as a chisel! |
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| A small amount of member data is captured and held in an attempt to reduce spammers and to manage users. This site also uses cookies to ensure ease of use. In order to comply with new DPR regulations you are required to agree/disagree with this process. If you do not agree then please email the Admins using info@nikondsl.uk Thank you. |