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| VR feature not effective | Rating: 
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| Posted by PRSS: Wed Jun 27th, 2012 13:34 | 1st Post |
| Hello everybody I have recently bought a Nikon D5100 with the kit lens 18-55mm VR and also a 55-200mm VR lens. Both are DX lenses. I find that the VR is not as effective as I thought it would be. If I take a picture at 200mm focal length with a shutter speed of 1/60 without VR and another one with VR turned on, the picture with VR turned on is less blurry -but not razor sharp. I have focussed correctly. I have taken the picture after half pressing the shutter release and then wait for the image to stabilise. Should I use this VR feature at all or better not to use this feature and go for a tripod. But I like to hand hold most of the times. So I bought these VR featured lenses. Am I doing something wrong to get shaky pictures with even the VR switched ON. Thanks in advance PRSS
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| Posted by Eric: Wed Jun 27th, 2012 14:52 | 2nd Post |
| You should be able to handhold a 200mm with VR at 1/60th. Personally I would check the sharpness of the lens at a number of focal lengths, aperture set at f8 ...placing the camera on a tripod or solid surface with VR OFF. Ruling out camera movement in this way you establish the sharpest image you can get from this lens. If it STILL isn't sharp enough, you need to consider the possibility the lens isn't good enough. If you get a sharp image, try retaking the shot using the aperture you used for the blurry images. Its a process of elimination. You are really trying to prove to yourself that the glass without VR is good enough. VR will help with camera shake...but it won't make an inherently unsharp lens....sharp,
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by PRSS: Wed Jun 27th, 2012 20:16 | 3rd Post |
| Thanks Eric for the reply. My lens is razor sharp as I have done photography at the 200mm focal length at all apertures with flash guns. All the photos taken with flash (not slow sync but flash only lighting)at 1/60 sec and with several aperture settings are very sharp. So it is not the problem with the focussing or the glass. I think the problem must be with my hand holding. Probably my hand holding is not as efficient as those when I did my film photography in good old days. With best regards PRSS
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| Posted by jk: Thu Jun 28th, 2012 04:08 | 4th Post |
| I think the best proof of the lens would be to use a tripod. Set camera to Shutter Priority so you can select a particular shutter speed the vary aperture and ISO to demonstrate. Of course if camera is on a tripod then you need to switch OFF VR. Once you have done those tests you can then use the sharpest aperture (probably f8 or f11). To test your ability to hand hold with VR. You need to use Aperture Priority mode and set aperture to sau f8 and shoot by varying the ISO. Probably best to do this test in late afternoon near to about 30 mins before sunset where you are in India as the light is so strong.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Jun 28th, 2012 05:17 | 5th Post |
PRSS wrote: Thanks Eric for the reply. My lens is razor sharp as I have done photography at the 200mm focal length at all apertures with flash guns. All the photos taken with flash (not slow sync but flash only lighting)at 1/60 sec and with several aperture settings are very sharp. So it is not the problem with the focussing or the glass.OK sounds like you have covered everything sesible. I suppose the next thing would be to try different shutter speeds (as JK says) but I would try handholding and varying the ISO (to keep the aperture constant) to see if it is camera movement. The effectiveness of VR is often over stated by Nikon. But I wouldnt have expected to see any camera shake at 1/60th.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by richw: Thu Jun 28th, 2012 06:05 | 6th Post |
| If it has the option make sure the VR is set to 'Normal' and not 'Active' this can make a difference in normal circumstances. What are taking a photo of?
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| Posted by Ray Ninness: Thu Jun 28th, 2012 06:13 | 7th Post |
VR is an interesting feature, and usable to a degree, but it does not erase, all sins!!  Sharp images depend more on technique then gadgets!!! The old saw, that the reciprocal of the lens equaling the shutter speed is still pretty valid, ie 200mm lens 1/200 @.. yes VR can stretch that, but everything has to be just right, and the camera, shooter and the subject all have to have the right cosmic alignment!!! But we still have come a long way, baby!!! 
____________________ Ray Ninness F8Photos.com Bedford, New Hampshire USA |
| Posted by jk: Thu Jun 28th, 2012 09:24 | 8th Post |
PRSS wrote: I think the problem must be with my hand holding. Probably my hand holding is not as efficient as those when I did my film photography in good old days.I know we all image we are as young as we were but in reality it is not the case so I guess we need to adjust for our own VI (vibration introduction). PRSS since you have tested with flash and the lens seems sharp I think that you have identified the possible issue. Like Ray says VR helps but it doesnt cure. Probably the best solution is to up the ISO as with the new cameras from Nikon they behave very well at 1600 ISO.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Doug: Thu Jun 28th, 2012 10:01 | 9th Post |
PRSS wrote:I think the problem must be with my hand holding. Are you sure you're not viewing at 100% or higher on a large computer screen (in the film days none of us had the luxury of this kind of magnification unless we were enlarging our prints to very large sizes and sitting 18" away)
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| Posted by PRSS: Fri Jun 29th, 2012 02:50 | 10th Post |
| Thank you everybody! I am overwhelmed by the help! After all the suggestions given above I did some vigorous tests. The VR does work - bur as Eric stated, the VR is over stated by Nikon, in my opinion also. I have understood that the VR effectiveness varies from person to person. My son is getting better results with the VR than I do - he said (who has a similar equipment as mine) Thanks once again PRSS
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| Posted by jk: Fri Jun 29th, 2012 04:27 | 11th Post |
| Glad that we have managed to get to the root of the problem. Personally I tend to shoot with VR lenses but treat them as ordinary lenses. That way I dont have any excessive expectations.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Ray Ninness: Fri Jun 29th, 2012 09:00 | 12th Post |
jk wrote: Glad that we have managed to get to the root of the problem. Likewise JK, I am sure it has it's uses, and when used along with good technique, I am sure it extends the range for hand holdability.. But the results can and will vary.. 
____________________ Ray Ninness F8Photos.com Bedford, New Hampshire USA |
| Posted by Doug: Fri Jun 29th, 2012 13:58 | 13th Post |
| Good technique combined with continuous shooting can be nearly as effective (shoot half a dozen and only keep the sharpest)
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| Posted by jk: Fri Jun 29th, 2012 19:06 | 14th Post |
Doug wrote:Good technique combined with continuous shooting can be nearly as effective (shoot half a dozen and only keep the sharpest) Sharpest or sharp ones?  Some bad days they are all unsharp. Then again why would I think that I can hand hold a D3S with Nikon 300 f2.8 and shoot at 1/125 at f4 at ISO 3200 and get sharp images of fast moving dancers. However some days I do get a series of sharp images. Just proves we are also the variable in the equation!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by PRSS: Fri Jun 29th, 2012 22:13 | 15th Post |
| Hello everybody This has been a good exercise and experiment in learning VR ! With best regards PRSS
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| Posted by Robert: Sat Jun 30th, 2012 04:37 | 16th Post |
| Well I only recently acquired my first VR lens, an 18-105mm f4-5.6 DX. I am far from convinced of the magic of VR. I haven't bothered (or had time) to do any tests with it yet, such is my enthusiasm for the feature. I did use it for the Queens Jubilee beacons but I was very disappointed by the result's, the nearest beacon was about 5 miles away but despite holding the camera against a concrete signpost and taking perhaps ten exposures, not one was really sharp. Wen I got home I discovered the VR wasn't turned on...  Silly old fool!I will post the results, hopefully this weekend? Can all have a good laugh...  I don't find the combination of the D3100 and my 18-105 lens particularly pleasing from a sharpness point of view even in good light. I am tending to use the D3100 with the 18-105 for snapshots in a casual way with little or no thought for technique. I usually use a much higher ISO with the D3100, 400, 800 or even 1600 occasionally, mostly to cope with the slower lens and to be able to keep a reasonable shutter speed. My 'work' camera is a D200 usually with a fast, manual focus, non zoom lens attached. The D200 is usually on a tripod or monopod, with an f 2.8 non zoom stopped to between f4 and f8. I rarely use anything other than ISO 200 with the D200. Sharpness (or lack of it) seems to be less of a problem with this combo, despite the manual focus. I am very surprised at the suggestions that sharp images can regularly result with a 200mm lens hand held at 1/60 Sec, even with VR. 1/500 Sec would be my choice, or a (solid) tripod.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jun 30th, 2012 08:58 | 17th Post |
Robert wrote: I set out to prove you wrong Robert....and failed miserably I had to search long and hard for an example taken at 200mm with slow shutter speed. It seems that either the lighting or my instinct to use faster shutter speeds have conspired to present no examples.......except one! I am not sure if this can show anything given the downsampling for the website but this one was taken at 1/50th. (the right side is the ex camera original and the left has been sharpened a tad). Compared to other shots taken on the same day in better lighting (so shutter speeds faster than 1/300th) this one DOES look softer. So I am coming to the opinion, that you are right (oh that hurts!) and even with VR you can see a difference between 1/60th and 1/300th. Of course the monkey could have twitched as I took it? Attachment: _DSC4341.jpg (Downloaded 21 times)
____________________ Eric |
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