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| Lightroom 5 beta | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by jk: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 02:58 | 1st Post |
| Adobe have announced the start of the Lightroom5 beta testing. http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/04/15/adobe-lightroom-5-beta-preview
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 05:08 | 2nd Post |
| Wow... And I was about to get Lr4, thanks JK should get at least 6 months beta testing.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 07:26 | 3rd Post |
| Needs to have OSX Lion 10.7.x. or higher. I really dont want to upgrade to Lion on my Macbook Air which is my main machine at present! The underlying OS is the same it is just extra bells and whistles that I dont need/want in 10.7 and 10.8 I suppose I will have to put it on my Mountain Lion Machine. :-( I wish that Apple would release the new updated Apple Mac Pro.
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| Posted by Bob Bowen: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 09:16 | 4th Post |
| Just getting comfy with LR4 as well. Hey Ho.
____________________ Bob Bowen |
| Posted by Bob Bowen: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 09:22 | 5th Post |
| Just spotted that Terry White the Adobe evangelist has a video on his web site giving an overview and top tips on LR5
____________________ Bob Bowen |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 10:46 | 6th Post |
jk wrote:I wish that Apple would release the new updated Apple Mac Pro. Don't hold your breath, it may never come. :-(
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 10:58 | 7th Post |
jk wrote:Needs to have OSX Lion 10.7.x. or higher. OK The basic OS is the same but the OS has been considerably developed to handle multithreading and CPU Load Balance, which means the applications don't have to perform that task which it really an OS task anyway. There has been a lot of tweaking and attention to detail improvements since Snow Leopard. I wouldn't stick at Lion, it's only a half step to Mountain Lion. To me the only justification to use SL 10.6.x is to enable the use of legacy software. The only thing I had was MS Office 2004, which I have dumped now anyway in favour of the iWork suit, which with one or two snags, is OK for what I need.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 13:37 | 8th Post |
| Unfortunately not all my machines will upgrade to ML. Only the two latest machines the Macbook Air 13" and MacMini server. The Macbook Pro 17" and Macbook Pro 15" stop at Lion. I use Snow Leopard for compiling code for developers.
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 14:13 | 9th Post |
| OK, I understand. I believe it's possible to run SL on later machines by using an old version of Fusion + a few tweaks. I don't think there is a way of forcing the newer OS's to run on the older machines. The real issue is Rosetta. Rosetta allowed pre-Intel software to run on the Intel processors. I know there are tweaks out there but I just want it working out of the box! Challenge enough for me just using the software. Like it's taken me 8 years to find how to do levels, setting the black and white points, in Lightroom... Dooh! I am like a kid with a new toy setting levels on low contrast images left, right and centre! I can hardly wait until 11pm when I can download the Lightroom 5 beta software.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 15:23 | 10th Post |
| Finally managed to get Maps running on LR4 after a lot of poking and fiddling. Do I want to move to LR5? Maybe, possobly.
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| Posted by TomOC: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 15:55 | 11th Post |
jk wrote:Needs to have OSX Lion 10.7.x. or higher. JK - Put Mtn Lion on my wife's MBA and it is fine - Lion was not so hot. I would say go for the upgrade - MBA runs as fast on ML as on SL Tom
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by TomOC: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 15:57 | 12th Post |
| JK and Robert- I'll let you guys run the beta  Sounds like a couple of good features For me, the best might be an improved Blurb book section - dying to be able to make custom end flaps for the blurb books !!!
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 16:09 | 13th Post |
TomOC wrote:JK and Robert- It isn't real beta, it must be pretty well tamed/sorted to let the public play with it. Adobe aren't stupid, they know if it wrecked stuff there would be an almighty hue and cry. I think it's their way of creating extra interest and loyalty from users while they put the finishing touches to the final release 'Gold Master' version, on the way past they get some useful feedback from users, which they might include in subsequent point releases. It seems like a win-win policy. I have run all the 'beta' versions and not had a single issue.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by TomOC: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 17:37 | 14th Post |
| I agree... I'll probably try it myself. I make a lot of blurb books and if the book app is really better, i want that. I really don't use LR at all, I just don't get it with the catalogs and all, but that's just me. If you are NOT a strong photoshop user, it really makes a lot of sense. And now, some of the plugins (like perfect photo suite) work better with LR than with PS...go figure
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 17:53 | 15th Post |
| Tom, I think the problem with the catalogues and that side of things can be largely ignored. There is a database of the images and a collection of the previews in the same folder, they can grow for a large collection but not ridiculously so. For me the crucial thing is to add the images NOT ingest them. Must go I have along day in Scotland tomorrow, talk later
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by TomOC: Tue Apr 16th, 2013 18:23 | 16th Post |
| Thanks, Robert. I now just import (add only) and set up my files that I will be working with and then when I am done, I just delete the whole LR catalog. Keep in mind I have a system of keywording with Photo Mechanic (which puts the keywords in the file rather than sidecar files), ingest into my archive app - Media Pro (now holding more than 140,000 files that are all keyworded and searches in seconds) - and then generally use Bridge to select etc and then ACR, then usually Photoshop with lots of plugins to work the file. I tried to find a way that usefully added LR to the mix, but it was the catalog issue that put me off - some of the features are great but I am back to using it only to finalize my blurb books at the moment.
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 01:20 | 17th Post |
| Tom, Lightroom doesn't put the keywords in sidecar files for me, Photoshop creates sidecar files, I don't mind that except having to remember to move or delete the sidecar with the original NEF file. I have moved entire folder structures from one computer to another then created a new catalogue on the new computer, the keywords are intact. I accept the key-wording in Lr isn't perfect, 9 recent words isn't enough and I find the entry methods cumbersome for long sessions, having to use the escape key to exit the process for each file is clumsy. It could be made much easier. I have tried other systems inc PhotoMechanic but keep coming back to Lr. For a while I tried adding global keywords to each batch of daily imports, but found many keywords were inappropriate, it seems harder to remove keywords than add them, so now I only add truly global data like the year, month and location. I am currently going through the keywords one by one and checking they are appropriate for each image and on the way past adding extra words if needed. Now, where is my kilt and sporran and my passport...
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 01:27 | 18th Post |
| I downloaded Lr5 last night, it took just over an hour. I launched it and it immediately 'found' my mapping data I had entered into the beta Lr4 I used when I tested that version. Will report back later on that.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by richw: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 06:56 | 19th Post |
| Good video on it here also: http://photoshopuser.com/lightroom5/
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| Posted by jk: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 07:58 | 20th Post |
| Robert if you want Keywords in your XMP files then you need to update your Catalog Settings. /Lightroom/Catalog Settings.... Attachment: Screen shot 2013-04-17 at 14.56.47.jpg (Downloaded 17 times)
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| Posted by TomOC: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 10:41 | 21st Post |
| JK- Is there a way to keyword WITHOUT making .xmp files ? i.e. to embed in the raw file? Or .psd file? Tom
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Andy: Tue Apr 23rd, 2013 15:20 | 22nd Post |
| This might be of some use to show some effects available in LR5 http://paper.li/f-1347307085?utm_source=subscription&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=paper_sub
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| Posted by jk: Wed Apr 24th, 2013 01:41 | 23rd Post |
TomOC wrote: JK-No you cant embed in the RAW file unless you use some other tools. LR gives you the option to make an xmp file that sits with the image or in another place of your choice, or store the data in the LR database of images.
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Apr 24th, 2013 03:08 | 24th Post |
| Well I am not so sure. I don't understand it properly but I have been messing with my image file libraries and re-organising my Lightroom catalogues. As I have mentioned before I do not ingest my actual image files into Lightroom, they are in their original folder structure on a hard drive with the Lightroom.LrCat and the previews.Lrdata in a nearby folder. The vast majority of my images are NEF's. This is an account of an experiment. Yesterday I copied all my image files to a fresh, clean internal drive from an external drive. I then created a NEW Lightroom 3 catalogue. Many of the keywords, and apparently all of the image adjustments were re-created when I created the new catalogue. Not all the keywords were present so in fact I dumped the 'new' catalogue. I was careful to unmount the external drive before creating the new catalogue, so as not to give the cataloging process any external reference. I don't understand why some keywords 'stuck' and others were apparently lost, It didn't appear to relate to NEF/JPEG differences. It was more recent keywords which were missing. There are very few sidecar files, only for images I have opened with Photoshop, which are progressively fewer nowadays. So based on my experiment keywords are carried with the image files, even NEF's but apparently not reliably. I have included a screen shot of my current folder structure below. Back to keyword checking... When I get bored with Keyword checking again I may create a new catalogue with some fresh images and see what happens... Attachment: Screen Shot 2013-04-24 at 08.50.26.jpg (Downloaded 32 times)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Wed Apr 24th, 2013 07:08 | 25th Post |
| I use LR for all my Keywording and Image Rating. Lightroom stores all keywords and Image Rating in the lrcat database or in the xmp files. It creates against every image. http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/2680/how-does-lightroom-store-data-about-photos There are occasions when I have keyworded files and then gone back to find they havent been keyworded!. I have decided this is due to the type ahead feature in the keywording so when I do an to save the keyword in fact all I have done is accepted the Keyword suggested. I need to decide if the type ahead is desirable or not. Sometimes it is sometimes not!! There is also another occasion when you can think you are keywording and in fact you are only doing some of the files not all. See the link below for a full explanation. http://digital-photography-school.com/introduction-to-keywords-and-lightroom
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| Posted by TomOC: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 00:39 | 26th Post |
| Good grief. Now I'm SURE I don't want to use the LR catalog...losing just "some" keywording is the same as losing them all.
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 02:30 | 27th Post |
| Tom, you have misunderstood, I HAVENT LOST ONE KEYWORD because I still had my original catalogue which I moved over from the external drive to the internal drive and re-connected with my images. Not only that but it's backed up too. The point of my above post was that *some* keywords seem to be somehow attached to the image files, while some are not. This was not due to sidecar files. It was an experiment to help answer your question in post 21, to see if the keywords came with the images or the catalogue. I still don't know the answer, some keywords definitely do, some don't. I want to try to figure what is different about the ones that do stick. 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 03:06 | 28th Post |
| If you copy some images (NEF only) onto a different hard drive then open them with Photo Mechanic if they have embedded keywords - which they shouldnt unless you have used something on them that does open the image and write data then you should see no keywords. Images with keywords present should always have xmp files or else a database entry in the software product that you are using.
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| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 03:10 | 29th Post |
Robert wrote:Tom, you have misunderstood, I HAVENT LOST ONE KEYWORD because I still had my original catalogue which I moved over from the external drive to the internal drive and re-connected with my images. Not only that but it's backed up too. If you select ALL your images in Lightroom then tell it to write XMP files then do a Metadata sync it will make for all your images xmp files with the keywords and image ratings and your edit data. I used this feature on Windows as I used iMatch for my cataloguing on Windows.
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| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 03:19 | 30th Post |
jk wrote:I use LR for all my Keywording and Image Rating. Thanks JK, I have looked at the links. The first link has some interesting snippets which I will follow up. As I add keywords I always check they have registered before I move to the next image, but they always do register. The only time I have a problem of this sort is using the recent keyword list. Clicking on a keyword here 'toggles' the keyword i.e. turns it on or off. If the keyword in the recent keyword list is highlighted then it's selected, otherwise it's grey. If I am quickly checking for a particular keyword in a batch of images I use the recent keyword feature to turn on or off the particular keyword, sometimes I toggle it the wrong way. That can result in the keyword being either present or absent for that particular image, or if I have multiple images selected in grid view, all of the selected images. Currently I am checking every single keyword and checking the keyword against the image for relevance. The highlighting of the active keywords isn't as clear as it might be, sometimes when my eyes are very tired I make mistakes. I would guess at present I am spending at least ten hours a day checking the keywords. Attachment: Screen Shot 2013-04-25 at 09.11.06.jpg (Downloaded 27 times)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 03:40 | 31st Post |
jk wrote:Robert wrote: JK, I don't *WANT* XMP files, I am just trying to understand why some of my NEF files (which don't have sidecar files) seem to carry some keywords with them but not other (more recently applied) keywords. I don't mind some Photoshop created XMP files but I don't particularly want Lightroom getting in on the act too. It just makes file management that bit harder.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 03:44 | 32nd Post |
jk wrote:If you copy some images (NEF only) onto a different hard drive then open them with Photo Mechanic if they have embedded keywords - which they shouldnt unless you have used something on them that does open the image and write data then you should see no keywords. I plan to try to analyse this, it's bugging me. When I have finished keywording I will have a play.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 09:29 | 33rd Post |
Robert wrote: jk wrote: OMG.... That must be a labour of love or else you have some seriously masochistic tendencies. I dont think that I could do that for more than a few days. 
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| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 09:43 | 34th Post |
Robert wrote: jk wrote:OK but when I initially came across xmp files on Windows I couldnt really work out why I needed them but over the last 4-5 years I have decided they are a necessary evil as I dont want my RAW files touched by any software other than in Read-only mode. Prior to CS3 I think that editing was destructive unless you saved the JPG/NEF with a new name so it may be that you keyworded some files and this data has been embedded in the original file rather than the data being stored in a database or xmp file. FYI: Some trickery that I wouldnt do unless absolutely necessary. 1. If you use PhotoMechanic to keyword nef files, It is possible to then delete the xmp files after the transfer and still have the data but no xmp files. 2. If you use ExifTool/ExiftoolGUI to transfer gps and location data from xmp files to my nefs (after geolocating in LR) then likewise you can delete the xmp files without losing the info. Of course I never do this but I could if I wanted to.....
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| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 09:50 | 35th Post |
jk wrote:
Must be well over three weeks now? I enjoy it, I am on the home straight now and my techniques are improving. it was a good move culling first, then organising, then keywording. One of the biggest challenges has been trying to date pre digital images. Some I will never get. Once I am clear of this I intend to start digitising more of my films, slides and prints. Now I have cracked the problem of converting colour negatives to digital positive, it has opened up many more images to convert to digital, because now I can do it for free, before, it was costing me £10 for 36 negatives, so I was pretty selective. I also have quite a few 110 negatives to convert, the lab couldn't do them.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by TomOC: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 12:18 | 36th Post |
Robert wrote:jk wrote: Robert - In my case, I *don't* want .xmp files and that was the first reason I switched to all keywording in Photo Mechanic...not to mention it has a lot of features that let you work much faster. JK- I have moved many files from drive to drive (copy and/or moved) and the keywords, ratings and labels all stay intact in the file with no .xmp created. Might be some setting I learned years ago, but that was my prime reason for using the app. Tom
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 25th, 2013 15:02 | 37th Post |
| I have a copy of PhotoMechanic v5 but I dont use it very often. I know it can keyword and rate images but I dont know where it puts this info. Current best practice is that softwares should not write to the RAW files. I'll need to do some digging to find out how PM works.
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| Posted by Doug: Sun Apr 28th, 2013 17:22 | 38th Post |
jk wrote:I have decided they are a necessary evil... In what way are they evil? With properly managed XMP files - images on a drive have all metadata (keywords, crops, edits etc) attached through virtue of a tiny file with the same name Easy to distinguish from the actual files using simple and long available tools in Finder OR Explorer (spotlight, sort by kind, sort by size etc) A catastrophic loss of your lightroom catalog file and all it's backups (but not the images) would be relatively easy to recover from (you would lose collections and a few other lightroom catalog settings, but image specific data would be intact in those XMP files) Without properly managed XMP files all you would have is the images exactly as they were when first imported:-O
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| Posted by jk: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 02:30 | 39th Post |
| That is exactly my point Doug. If you do lose your lrcat file and you dont use xmp files then you are into keywording and rating your images from scratch. The xmp files take up a lot of room as they have finite size and minimal file size on a large disk is the smallest sector size. So Yes a necessary evil 
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