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| Kenko extension tubes Ring flash won't work using extension tube/Micro Nikkor 105mm D lens | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Sat Nov 3rd, 2018 17:10 | 1st Post |
| I have recently been trying macro photography (Nikon D5000, Micro Nikkor 105mm D lens, K&F Concept KF-150 flash unit). The issue is the ring flash unit won't function with the extension tubes in use with the 105 D lens. Without the tubes, it works fine, using the 18-55mm VR lens with the tubes, it works as well. I asked this same question on another forum, and there was no explanation to be had. I'm hoping on this Nikon specific forum, this issue may be resolved. Sorry to be a pest on my first post, but this is driving me kinda crazy! Regards, Dan
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| Posted by Gilbert Sandberg: Sun Nov 4th, 2018 03:48 | 2nd Post |
| H, re: pest You are not, it's just an interesting question. I assume the Kenko set of tubes is fully compatible with your Nikon gear (I own a similar set). I do not know the flash you mention. Is it Nikon CLS compatible ? Have you tried the lens/tubes/camera with a normal Nikon flash ? Have you checked/cleaned the electrical contacts on the tubes/lenses ? Regards, Gilbert
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Sun Nov 4th, 2018 14:05 | 3rd Post |
| Hello Gilbert, thanks for your reply. The tubes are the ones made to be compatible for Nikon, as is the flash. The only other flash unit I have is an old one for film SLR, it works after a fashion, not really compatible. I have looked at all the contacts, all looks good. It makes me think I have something set wrong, this camera (to me) seems as though it would be easier to run a nuclear power plant. It makes me long for my old SLR's in days past. Regards, Dan
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| Posted by Robert: Sun Nov 4th, 2018 15:35 | 4th Post |
| Hi Dan, Welcome to the forum. This seems like one of those problems which it would be easier to solve in person rather than at a distance! Have I got this right? This is a ring flash, it works OK without the extension tubes but not with them... The flash screws onto the front of the 105 Nikkor... How are you connecting the flash to the camera? an adaptor off the flash shoe or from the flash socket on the camera body? From a purely electrical point of view I just wonder if the lens needs to make electrical contact with the camera body... The Kenko? tubes are plastic. I am a bit sceptical about using the zoom for close up when you have the Micro Nikkor 105 D. Except for trying to narrow down this problem of course! I would not recommend using an 'old' flash intended for film, on a DSLR because the trigger voltages on the old flash units can be quite high and can destroy the circuit boards in a DSLR. One sure way to trigger the flash is to use a flash relay like the Nikon SU4, triggered by the onboard flash.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sun Nov 4th, 2018 15:42 | 5th Post |
| Hi MPDMaven, Welcome to the forum. Do the tubes have electrical contacts that go through from lens to camera body? Most ring flashes are not TTL as they cannot or do not pre-flash but work on the principle of using a fixed aperture value. However as soon as you put extension tubes into the equation this changes the notional aperture. So you need to use a bit of trial and error to work out if the lens shows f8 then the real aperture with the ext. tubes may be f16 or f22 or something else. Do a series of exposures and see which value you need to use for the shown aperture on the lens. Also remember that most ring flashes are relatively small flashes.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Gilbert Sandberg: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 08:06 | 6th Post |
| H, re: this camera Please note that the D3nnn/5nnn series are modestly-priced cameras by Nikon, some features that many people like have been left off. Back-on-subject: I have not come up with an idea how the failure you mention may occur.Q: why would you want to use tubes on a Micro Nikkor? Do you really want more than 1:1 reproduction ?On zooms and tubes: not the best combination under most circumstances. to others: Kenko (or otherwise branded) tubes can be very compatible. The best discerning factor is price, if a set of three tubes is priced anywhere under USD 100, compatibility and functionality may be an issue, mine cost more and work fine in all combinations I tried.(I admit to not owning any Dnn00 series cameras). Regards, Gilbert
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| Posted by jk: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 08:36 | 7th Post |
| The 18-55 is an AFS lens The Nikon 105 macro D - I think this is a AFD lens The tubes must be electronically coupled to the camera otherwise. Please can you post full specification of the 105 lens. There are several versions of this lens. Do you have pictures of the tubes, lenses (both) so we can see the contacts on the rear of lenses and tubes as well as front of receiving throat of tubes.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by HPDMaven: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 14:41 | 8th Post |
| Hello Robert, The flash is mounted directly to the hot shoe. The tubes are plastic, yet they do have the series of contacts for relaying the signals back and forth. I have only used the tubes on the 18-55mm AF VR lens for testing purposes. Robert, thanks for your reply, regards, Dan
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 14:55 | 9th Post |
| JK, the tubes do have the contacts. I don't seem to be getting correct information regarding exposure either. I tried the ring flash with the 18-55mm VR lens, and took a shot of my whole room using the ring flash. It lit up the whole room. This flash unit does have TTL, by the way. Thanks for your reply, regards, Dan
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 15:50 | 10th Post |
| JK, I'm having trouble posting photos. I'm exceeding the file size. I'm equally technophobic in both cameras and computers.
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 16:40 | 11th Post |
| Don, re. photo's, use low resolution JPEGS. I do a selected screenshot of the image I want (Mac, Shift+Command+4, don't know about PC's), save it to my desktop then use that. Unfortunately we can only post single image per post. Something we need to address... Attachment: Screen Shot 2018-11-05 at 21.37.42.jpg (Downloaded 16 times)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by HPDMaven: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 16:45 | 12th Post |
| Robert, JK. I'll try one photo here, see what happens Attachment: DSC_0039 (1).JPG (Downloaded 13 times)
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 16:52 | 13th Post |
| Ex. tube, Micro Nikkor 105 Attachment: DSC_0036.JPG (Downloaded 13 times)
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 17:19 | 14th Post |
| Micro Nikkor 105mm 1:2.8 D lens Attachment: DSC_0041.JPG (Downloaded 13 times)
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 17:25 | 15th Post |
| Ex. tubes, Micro Nikko 105mm 1:2.8 D Attachment: DSC_0037.JPG (Downloaded 13 times)
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 17:35 | 16th Post |
| I have managed to post a few photos, others wouldn't.
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| Posted by jk: Mon Nov 5th, 2018 17:36 | 17th Post |
| I have that lens but I dont have any extension rings for the lens as I use bellows instead. I have a Ring flash but I need to manually get exposure correct as any extension changes the shown f stop to a different one depending on the degree of extension. I can see no reason why the flash wont fire when the tubes are used.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Nov 6th, 2018 03:43 | 18th Post |
jk wrote:I can see no reason why the flash wont fire when the tubes are used. That's my take too. Dan, have you tried the same combination, with extension tubes and without extension tubes, with the inbuilt flash, rather than your ring flash? Not suggesting it as an alternative but as a way of eliminating the external flash. I just get the feeling the camera could be 'taking over' when the extension tubes are fitted. Have you altered the flash menu settings? A two button reset should return the flash settings to factory settings. Also, try operating the flash not actually mounted on (or touching) the lens, both with the zoom and the micro 105. I am still thinking of the possibly missing earth return path when tubes are used in combination with the micro 105. The standard method of cleaning the contacts is using an eraser, especially a pencil top mounted eraser which can get into the contacts without damaging anything. An alternative is a fibreglass tipped pen which can be used to scrub the contacts to clean them.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by HPDMaven: Tue Nov 6th, 2018 13:38 | 19th Post |
| Robert, I will try the tubes with the built-in flash, though I may have already tried that, but I've tried so many things, I can't remember if I did or not, at this point. Also, I'm going to try doing a continuity test on the contacts of the tubes, and see if they are working properly. I have found trying to find out anything from Kenko seems pretty much be an impossibility, If I can't make them work, I'll return them to Amazon. Thanks, Dan
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Nov 6th, 2018 15:37 | 20th Post |
HPDMaven wrote:I have found trying to find out anything from Kenko seems pretty much be an impossibility. One of the downsides of lower priced gear, although TBH Nikon aren't always forthcoming. Good luck!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by HPDMaven: Tue Nov 6th, 2018 17:41 | 21st Post |
| Robert/JK, I think I've discovered the problem. I believe it's in the contact on the extension tubes. I noticed the display saying to "lock aperture ring at highest setting", even thought it was already locked. When I gently wiggled the lens/tube/camera interface, that notice would come and go, indication a problem with the contacts. I narrowed it down to it only happening when a tube was in use. The flash works fine w/o the extension tubes. By the way, this was after I cleaned all the contacts on camera, tubes and lenses. So, I intend to return the extension tubes. Do you men feel a bellows is a better alternative for greater than 1:1 perspective shooting? Thanks for all your help, regards, Dan 
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Tue Nov 6th, 2018 18:08 | 22nd Post |
| Unfortunately Robert, I've had to do this on a shoestring budget. At the time I bought the camera, I admit to knowing basically nothing about DSLR's, having had only a Sony Cyber-Shot as my first digital camera. Before that, was an old Konica SLR that served me well for years, and then a Nikon N70, but to post photos on the Audio forums I frequent, a digital camera was needed. I bought the most affordable Nikon I could find, not even knowing it was a low cost unit, but at my skill level (what skill?) I guess it doesn't make that much difference. I had wanted to take close-up photos of audio cartridges for some time, and that's what I've been doing. Learning lots though, photography and music/audio my two main hobbies with audio pretty much my full-time focus. Zu Audio Denon 103R w/ESCCO sapphire cantilever, Paratrace stylus mod. I'll see if my DIY Garrard 401 rebuild/and plinth project will post. Thanks again, Dan Attachment: DSC_0033 (1).JPG (Downloaded 8 times)
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Nov 6th, 2018 18:12 | 23rd Post |
| Well done Dan, It just didn't sound right and it wasn't. For close up photography, especially greater than 1:1 (which is macro), AF is useless. You need to concentrate on Manual Focus (MF). Instead of focusing, you need to decide on and set the extension (magnification) you want, then move the camera and lens back and forth to get the focus where you need it. Simple manual focus stacking is entirely possible, with a little care. I use a PB4 bellows with either a micro Nikkor 55 f/2.8 or a micro Nikkor 105 f/4.0. The PB4 bellows can both set the extension and slide back and forth to focus. I find using a clean stainless rule with fine graduations a very useful aid to understanding where the depth of focus (DoF) is and placing it to best effect. AF will generally wast half of your DoF because it usually focuses on the closest part of your subject, leaving half of your DoF water with well focused air. Also be aware that with the micro Nikkor 105 f/2.8 AF-D when you focus, the lens focal length changes, it's only 105mm at infinity. By 1:1 it's somewhere between 40 and 60mm, so altering the inbuilt focus an an AF-D also changes the size of the subject. Which is NOT what I want, especially for focus stacking, it's a right royal pain in the butt. I have just taken over 9,000 exposures of a bud bursting and leaves unfurling on a small plant, to create a time lapse video with my D300S and a micro Nikkor 105 f/4.0. The sequence started on September 2nd and I turned the camera off yesterday, so close on two months growth.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by HPDMaven: Tue Nov 6th, 2018 18:15 | 24th Post |
| More photos (Maybe!) Attachment: DSC_0024.JPG (Downloaded 8 times)
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Nov 6th, 2018 18:28 | 25th Post |
HPDMaven wrote:Unfortunately Robert, I've had to do this on a shoestring budget. At the time I bought the camera, I admit to knowing basically nothing about DSLR's, having had only a Sony Cyber-Shot as my first digital camera. OK Dan I understand, gear is expensive but you can get bellows quite reasonable on eBay if you are patient. Funny you are into audio! I have about 20 'reel to reel' tapes which my father recorded about in 1950 while he was recovering from TB in a sanatorium. He used to play the music in his pub in an evening to provide background music. As a young boy one of my little jobs was to change the tapes. I still have those tapes and want to digitise them to my computer. A friend knew about this and found an old reel to reel tape recorder at a car boot sale, it worked but the main belt soon snapped. All the tapes are good, maybe not high fidelity but as good as I remember them all those years ago. Anyway I am struggling to get a new belt, I ordered one from a firm at Southampton a month ago, they say they sent it, then sent another but I still haven't got a belt. I have tried elastic bands, which work for about half a tape then break. Fitting the belt requires stripping the deck, down to the inner workings. Twice I have had a capacitor dump it's load into my fingers when I got too close to the electrics! Very frustrating.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by HPDMaven: Tue Nov 6th, 2018 19:20 | 26th Post |
| Robert, I have to use the Micro Nikkor 105mm D lens in manual focus mode, as it does not have a focusing motor in its lens body. I have been into audio for going on fifty years, and like photography, I've had to do much of it in a cost-saving way to keep expenses somewhat reasonable. I think most folks know audio gear goes for insane prices these days, making sane audio enthusiasts use vintage gear, and as much DIY as we can muster. I have a deep UK connection with my gear, my old Garrard 401 turntable, and my Tannoy HPD 315 (ca 1974, 12" Dual Concentric drivers), placed into custom built 150 liter enclosures nearly 2" thick, weighing in at 192 lbs. each, sans drivers and crossovers. They are amazing. That's proably more than you wanted to know about my audio avocation, so I will cease and desist on the subject here. Regarding your blossom and leaf opening marathon, will you be making viewing it possible for members? Something I would enjoy seeing, I should think. Regards, Dan
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 7th, 2018 03:06 | 27th Post |
| It may be a while before I get myself into gear to create the video, winter months! Editing video sends me to sleep LOL. When I do get it assembled I will probably post it on Vimeo or YouTube, so I will post a link here. I found it difficult balancing the lighting, it's not great but for a first effort it's passable. The natural lighting varies throughout the day from full sunshine to darkness, so I have used an LED lamp which was on continuously and the inbuilt flash bounced off a white diffusing reflector. I balanced the lighting with a variety of plus and minus compensation settings for the exposure and flash. Generally you can see the day and night differences without loosing too much detail. I plan to create a small studio for this type of work and focus stacking. I have acquired a slab of polished green slate weighing ~80Kg (76 US Lbs, 12½ Stone) to mount the subject and camera in as stable a way as possible, I will bolt it to the main house wall on a rigid bracket. Standing it on the floor picks up too many vibrations. In the pub I built enclosures for Warfdale speakers with double skins, once built, the void was filled with sand, lots of it! We created our own tweeter circuitry, basic but it worked for 16 years. I am contemplating a macro lens as a Christmas present for myself, maybe... https://www.ukdigital.co.uk/laowa-25mm-f28-25-5x-ultra-macro-lens-nikon.html?utm_source=googleshopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8q7qpOjA3gIVysqyCh1wRwFDEAQYASABEgKi6fD_BwE This is a collage of three stages of the time-lapse from 11 August until 20 October, not much change after that. Attachment: Bay Tree Collage.jpg (Downloaded 8 times)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Wed Nov 7th, 2018 05:03 | 28th Post |
| Ah I see where you money has gone! Nice hifi setup. I got rid of my vinyl and Linn Sondek when I transferred it to mp3 in 2006.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by HPDMaven: Wed Nov 7th, 2018 14:11 | 29th Post |
| Robert, those photos show incredible clarity and detail. I salute you, and stand in awe of your knowledge and abilities. I will be watching for when you post the finished project. Dan
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| Posted by HPDMaven: Wed Nov 7th, 2018 14:56 | 30th Post |
| Yes, JK, thank you. In spite of trying to save money at every turn, it is an expensive hobby. I actually have two systems in one, using three Class D Audio amps I built (from kits), the one for the mains uses a larger power supply, and two amp modules, putting out 500Wpc @ 8ohms. I use this setup for all home theater, and most of my daily listening. When in the mood, I switch to a tube line stage (kit-built), a tube SET 300B amp, my Garrard 401 'table, and tube phono stage. The SET amp has been modified (caps and resistors), and uses some pricey EML XLS 300B tubes that were worth every penny. At only 8Wpc, the SET, driving my Tannoys, make for some very special listening, which I enjoy very much. I was very late jumping into computers, I had resolved to never get one, but, as time wore on, the mushroom syndrome became unbearable, my hobbies suffered from lack of access to information. I now have a love-hate relationship with them, though I'm disadvantaged due to my late start with them. I'll close for now, you're probably bored to tears, but I'll leave with a parting shot of my beloved Tannoys, SET amp, etc. Best regards, Dan Attachment: DSC01424.JPG (Downloaded 5 times)
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| Posted by jk: Wed Nov 7th, 2018 15:46 | 31st Post |
| Love it. Those Tannoys must produce a lovely sound.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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| Nikon DSLR Forums > Camera and Lens Forums > Specialised Photography - Macro, UV, IR, Underwater > Kenko extension tubes | Top | |
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