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Problems with my D3'Err' message and banding  Rate Topic 
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Posted by Robert: Thu Dec 28th, 2017 20:21 1st Post
While I am still delighted with my D3 and the images it produces, yesterday it threw an 'Err' message and locked up.

Batteries:

I had taken quite a few exposures (260) at 20seconds with 30 second intervals of stars at Kielder, it was pretty cold. Maybe -5C? the cars thermometer was recording -3C, it was freezing hard. I had already replaced one battery which had depleted.

The battery in the D3 wasn't empty, maybe half? We were sat in the car but could see the green light which flashes to indicate saving the images, when I noticed the D3 had stopped. I went to investigate and found it was displaying the Err message in the top screen. The camera was unresponsive and I couldn't persuade it to do anything.

Eventually the menus came active, I tried to find a 'two button reset' but couldn't find two buttons with green dots beside them, so gave up on that. I did however find an item on the menu that said resetting camera controls or something like that, so I tried it and the camera became active again, the 'Err' message went and the camera was usable. However, I still needed to go through the menus and reset things like "Long Exposure NR" to OFF, but I have lost the file naming setting which said D3A...... which was handy to be able to identify the image files but that's not crucial.

The camera went on to take a few more exposures with the same battery, but not many.

I fitted my third battery, an original Nikkon Battery but that didn't last many exposures before dying on me. Total of 350 exposures on three apparently full batteries. Although it did take a few (another 28) more this morning at the sunrise.

The D300S, by comparison, took over 500 exposures with one and a half batteries, which are much older, original D200 batteries, in exactly the same conditions.

The two non standard batteries I have are Germany sourced from recommended seller 2600mAH since I got the D3 maybe 18 months ago, not heavy usage. Regularly charged. I have to admit I usually charge the batteries immediately before a trip to be sure they are 'topped up' but I didn't do that this time because it's only a few days since I charged them all fully.

Banding:

I have been experiencing long exposure banding since early days of the D3, which slightly disappoints me. It seems to occur when I am doing time lapse interval photography, no issues with normal daylight images.

The D300S in identical circumstances has no similar banding issues.

It seems to start after say 15, 20 to 30 second exposures and get's worse/varies thereafter, with random patches of colour noise thrown in for good measure.

I have put it down to this being the first FX sensor that Nikon have produced and me pushing the boundaries by using it in such a harsh/demanding manner. When the images are used in star stacking software or star trails software the banding vanishes because the software blends the noise and that cancels it out but for time lapse video it doesn't, to that rules out that avenue of photography, no real problem, the D300S can cover that for me.

However...

I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that since the hiccup of the 'Err' message and my resetting the shooting menus the banding MAY have either reduced or gone. I can't see any sign of the banding since I reset the menus. That said, I have only taken 90 long (20 second) exposures at 30 second intervals since the reset, usually banding starts to appear after the fist 10 to 15 exposures...

I would like to better understand what was causing the banding and if it WAS a menu setting, what that setting was, so I can avoid it in the future. I still have to go through the settings to restore them as best I can, for future use, particularly the file naming convention.

Is there an equivalent "Two Button Reset" on the D3 or is the menu reset all there is?

Will post some examples of the banding tomorrow, am dead beat right now!



____________________
Robert.


Posted by jk: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 02:57 2nd Post
The 'Err' problem usually indicates an issue reading the card or low battery.

Do you use a USB card reader or use USB cable to the camera?
I always download via a USB cable as I believe that taking the card in and out of the camera is not good for the camera or the card.



____________________
Still learning after all these years!
https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none


Posted by jk: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 03:00 3rd Post
Long exposures can cause banding but excessive use of long exposures in a short period causes the sensor to heat up. This is why astrophotography designed cameras have extra cooling either a large finned structure on the back of the sensor or a small fan.



____________________
Still learning after all these years!
https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none


Posted by jk: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 03:02 4th Post
Yes there is a two button reset on the D3.
I will need to look it up in manual.
Hold down the WB and ISO buttons for two seconds

There were two green dots or green writing at the buttons.


You need that D3S..... shall I bring it to UK in January?



____________________
Still learning after all these years!
https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none


Posted by Robert: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 04:27 5th Post
jk wrote:
Yes there is a two button reset on the D3.
I will need to look it up in manual.
Hold down the WB and ISO buttons for two seconds

There were two green dots or green writing at the buttons.


You need that D3S..... shall I bring it to UK in January?
Thanks JK, found them now green dots on the buttons! I was looking at the main function buttons at the left and the top of the camera.

I suspect the camera 'froze' during the saving the image to card phase of the exposure, causing it to throw an error which may appear to be a write error to the camera but was probably the voltage going below par during the write to card phase.



____________________
Robert.


Posted by Robert: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 04:30 6th Post
This is the meta data of the last exposure before the Err fault.

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____________________
Robert.


Posted by Robert: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 04:57 7th Post
Here are some examples of the banding I have seen.

All D3 with various high ISO settings.

All as shot as far as I remember.

This is full frame, not cropped.



The following are cropped to 1 image pixel to 1screen pixel, 100% crop.





Finally the last image I took at Kielder 90 exposures after I reset the menus of the D3. To my eyes the banding is much reduced. The colour is completely different. I assume that's the white balance being different from the previous setting.



____________________
Robert.


Posted by Robert: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 06:30 8th Post
jk wrote:
The 'Err' problem usually indicates an issue reading the card or low battery.

Do you use a USB card reader or use USB cable to the camera?
I always download via a USB cable as I believe that taking the card in and out of the camera is not good for the camera or the card.
OK so the 'Err' is probably down to low battery.

The cards are good. I never use USB to transfer files, USB is fine for mice and keyboards but in my opinion never intended for transferring large files like NEF files.

I use a proper Firewire, Sandisk CF card reader, removing and inserting the cards carefully. Never had a problem (kiss of death there!). Much, much faster to unload a large number of NEF's from the camera with that. The D1/D1X had Firwire connectivity and I did occasionally connect to the computer with that but rarely USB.

I do use a cheap and nasty SD USB card reader for the D3300 cards, it has a CF slot but I would never use that for my D3 cards. It has Gaffer tape over the slot to prevent the ingress of foreign particles or CF Cards! LOL



____________________
Robert.


Posted by Robert: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 15:54 9th Post
OK, I have processed the NEF files from the last night time batch, after the D3 reset.

I took about 90 exposures at the Elf Kirk Viewpoint, a few were tests to check exposure and alignment, so just over 80 images are good. I selected the last 20 for this image, although Orion was starting to go below the horizon, I wanted to see what the later images were like. The ambient temperature was still similar, -3 to -5. The camera felt VERY cold.

This image has been stacked with 20 images in Stary Landscape Stacker, and adjusted in Lightroom Classic.

D3 Nikkor 16mm f2.8 @ f2.8, 20 seconds exposure, 30 seconds interval, ISO1600. Somewhat de-fished in PP.



____________________
Robert.


Posted by jk: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 02:48 10th Post
Like that last image. Very good. It would look great printed large!



____________________
Still learning after all these years!
https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none


Posted by Robert: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 04:45 11th Post
Thanks JK, methinks the D3 needed a reset, maybe too many adjustments to the settings, mine over yours, maybe some conflicts and unnoticed silly or mistaken settings.

The banding has almost gone since the menu reset and now I have done a full 'Two Button' reset it may be even better. There are still traces of lines but nothing like it was. In a way it seems the slight lines I still have were somehow emphasised by gross contrast from an in camera process.

I think I have restored the file naming convention, so back to being a happy camper!

I was pleased to find my collection of input manual lens data survived the 'Two Button' reset, together with my copyright name and info.

I still need to tackle the battery front, I looked at Wix and they want £140 for a single Nikon EN-EL4a. Seems a bit steep, especially since I need multiple units. That said cost of an expedition to Kielder, fuel and expenses add up, then the batteries let me down, that is wast of opportunity, time and money, not to mention frustrating.

I have wondered about making a little body warmer for it, a warm insulated bag, or a box like a warm/cool box with a tiny heater built in but then would probably have condensation issues. :doh: Just to get photo's of stars in winter!!!

What about a portable external power source??? I have a 300W inverter, I'm sure that would run a power pack, even from an independent 12V car battery. Can you get mains power packs for the D3? Perhaps if the Volts are kept up to spec. the camera (sensor) should run cooler and the save file process shouldn't throw errors? Don't think I would like the idea of running the D3 off of a car battery directly!!! Although I have read somewhere of somebody doing that via a dummy battery... If the current flow were restricted and the battery were on constant charge while still in the camera... That might work but a proper engineered solution would be better.

I have the book 'A Picture of Everest' of the original successful 1953 expedition. They had a variety of cameras Rolliflex, Leica, Retina II, Super Iconta and Contax they also had some specially treated cameras which had been either de-greased or specially greased by the manufacturers for arctic conditions, however no specially treated camera went above 23,000 feet. Basically the climbers didn't trust them! Preferring their own personal cameras, which they were used to and could use instinctively in the severely challenging conditions.

So, a solution to the question of taking time lapse photography into the cold of winter? It can't be so hard surely? Digital cameras must have to be used in cold conditions all over the world, it can't be so unusual to use a digital camera, especially a tough, professional one such as the D3 at minus 5ºC. I have experienced -20ºC in Germany and Holland in normal towns and villages, never mind in the Eastern European mountains, Alps and Scandinavia. For goodness sake, by comparison it's warm here in the UK.



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Posted by jk: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 05:30 12th Post
It is the Lion battery physical characteristics that is a limitation. The pukka Nikon ones are higher spec probably.



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Posted by Robert: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 07:07 13th Post
jk wrote:
It is the Lion battery physical characteristics that is a limitation. The pukka Nikon ones are higher spec probably.
Am looking at Nikon EH6-AC PSU, Trying to raise Nes but he's gone to ground!

About that Coolpix box as well...

I did find mention of the Nikon EP-6 AC Power Connector, that's a dummy EN-EL4 battery with a socket to take the Nikon EH6-AC PSU, so I was sort of right about the dummy battery. I expect the EP-6 AC will have some protective circuitry to regulate the power input to the camera but splitting an old EN-EL4 should provide a clue.

Wondering if there may be room for a pair of 18650 batteries in the EN-EL4 case... Now THAT could be an interesting conversion with an external case with a bunch of 18650 batteries hooked up together. As you may remember my UV lamp power pack fit's that bill exactly. That has 4 18650's.

Need a dud EN-EL4 to create my own EP-6 AC Power Connector.

I take it the D5 battery won't fit... NikonGear is off-line right now, has been overnight at least. I know this data is on there.



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