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| Z commotionNikon shooting themselves in the Z foot ? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by novicius: Fri Dec 20th, 2019 18:02 | 1st Post |
| So there are Up-dates for the Z camera`s...CF express cards usage and ... provide ProRes Raw video output to Atomos Ninja V recorders costing 200 usd.to implement....this all from an article of Sans Mirror ( Thom Hogan )....it is way too much for me to talk about,therefor a link to said article : https://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/2019-mirrorless-camera/october-december-2019-newsv/and-heres-the-under-deliver.html But since when has Nikon started a co-operation with Apple ? Guess the Z saga is Not my cup o` tea..
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Dec 21st, 2019 01:38 | 2nd Post |
| My brief take on this is that we are at the start of a new card standard, it always takes time to work out the compatibilities and incompatibilities with these things, so many combinations are possible. As for Apple they likely developed the software for the new video format with Red, in order to recoup some R&D costs they are probably licensing the application of the technology to Nikon. I would expect $200 fee would be small change for anybody needing that technology (not needed by casual users), the rest of the gear (cameras AND computers) at that level is extremely expensive and no doubt many Z6 units would be involved. When you take into account the very high cost of dedicated video cameras the cost of a Z6 even with the conversion is likely to be tiny when compared, yet I understand the Z6 can provide most of the essentials a videographer needs in a much more compact and vastly cheaper unit.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sat Dec 21st, 2019 04:44 | 3rd Post |
| Well it wont be happening on my Z7 as I dont do video. My Fuji XT3 is also 4K video capable and provides all that I would ever need. I dont even understand/know half the stuff necessary to make a video.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by novicius: Sat Dec 21st, 2019 07:06 | 4th Post |
| I tried Video with the D3s....Once !!....since then it is strictly done with smart phone only...so Comfortable and in 4k ...even take a picture with it now and then. Photography is done with the Nikon `s ofcourse.. 
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by chrisbet: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 02:48 | 5th Post |
| Lol, I have a Canon XL1S for the videos - that is even heavier than the D610!
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by GeoffR: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 03:35 | 6th Post |
| Personally I have no interest in video but for someone who needs the capability I would imagine that a Z series camera is a very economical way to get what they need. My opinion on the ProRes RAW video capability, for what it is worth; occasionally a new format comes along that is so good that it becomes the standard from then on. If this new format is that good Nikon are well placed to benefit from being involved. I see no benefit in ignoring the new development and if video users want it then they may well buy Nikon to get it.
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| Posted by Robert: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 03:43 | 7th Post |
GeoffR wrote:My opinion on the ProRes RAW video capability, for what it is worth; occasionally a new format comes along that is so good that it becomes the standard from then on. If this new format is that good Nikon are well placed to benefit from being involved. I see no benefit in ignoring the new development and if video users want it then they may well buy Nikon to get it. I think that was what I was trying to say!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 05:03 | 8th Post |
jk wrote:Well it wont be happening on my Z7 as I dont do video. My Fuji XT3 is also 4K video capable and provides all that I would ever need. I dont even understand/know half the stuff necessary to make a video.I wonder what percentage of DSLR / Z camera owners make serious movies with them as opposed to serious still photographs? Put another way...is the serious still photographer being overtaken by the serious filmmaker, such that manufacturers have to consider their needs more? I am sure there are a lot of people who put together YouTube style videos but do they warrant top end video capture? Are we seeing an upsurge in video filmmaking that will be the predominant future for photography in general?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by blackfox: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 05:15 | 9th Post |
| my view is that introducing video capability in cameras was the start of over complication of the hobby as just a small percentage of users need or want it . oh for the good old days of a pure camera for just taking photos on
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| Posted by jk: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 05:30 | 10th Post |
| It begs the question to the old adage, jack of all trades master of none! Why would you want a super photographer to bend his art and try to do video. Or vice versa! Modern photojournalists are meant to provide stills and video coverage as well as voice reports. This save news networks money but in reality we now get bland, stilted reports that lack great photos or incisive video with poor verbal/vocal content. Also the desire to get into news by the public has led to the gifting of great images to the news channels with no reward to the photographer! In the past even local newspapers would give a by-line and payment. Now the large news channels just gobble up the content with no payments and no by-line.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by chrisbet: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 05:49 | 11th Post |
| I think that most times people do things because they can - not because it is needed. Videoing with a DSLR camera is about as sensible as taking stills with a video camera! Phones are a special case, most of us carry a phone anyway, so having a camera / video inbuilt means we can capture ad hoc moments and we don't need high quality for sharing on the web, just the connectivity that the phone provides.
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by jk: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 06:34 | 12th Post |
chrisbet wrote:I think that most times people do things because they can - not because it is needed.Yes I think that is the case. I have been thinking more about the original post and what keeps springing to mind is ........ Z50.... why? Everything about the camera seems like it is ill considered!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by chrisbet: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 07:33 | 13th Post |
| Probably just built down to a price to fit into what Nikon marketeers see as an opportunity. There are people who just have to have the "latest" gizmo and don't want the complexity of an advanced camera, just something to take to parties and show off.....
____________________ If it is broken it was probably me .... |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 07:34 | 14th Post |
chrisbet wrote:I think that most times people do things because they can - not because it is needed.And yet there are significant numbers of people making films for TV broadcast using DSLRs. It amuses me how their DSLRs are surrounded by a plethora of add ons that make them more like Christmas trees....but they do it in preference to dedicated movie cameras. Maybe its unit cost? They cannot be as convenient to handle? With all the addons they are probably just as bulky as a conventional video camera. Don't understand their advantage.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by GeoffR: Sun Dec 22nd, 2019 16:11 | 15th Post |
jk wrote:Yes I think that is the case.Oh I think there is a point, Nikon don't want to be left out when the entry level DSLR becomes a historical artefact. The Z50 is simply an entry level camera for the Z series. As I have said before, it might be a good replacement for a 1J5 but I am in no hurry.
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| Posted by chrishamer: Tue Jan 7th, 2020 09:49 | 16th Post |
| Sorry to drag up a dormant thread... but I saw it and thought it worth replying. I definitely bought my Z6 directly with its video capability in mind, as well as a stills replacement for my D600. Personally I love the quality of the video you get from the Z6 and have found it a joy to work with. Eric mentioned unit cost and that is it for me, the Z6 gives me a really nice balance of a capable still camera and capable video camera - using a cage on it I can indeed make it look like a christmas tree but the results I've gotten from it are excellent - especially after moving to the S series primes. The latest updates on firmware are good in my opinion, Pro Res RAW is cool and the price seems fair but you'd need an external recorder such as the ATOMOS Ninja V ( £700-800) just to use it too. Personally although I might go down that route in the future, currently shooting in 4K is giving me a pretty good result out of the camera so I'll stick with that for now. But I guess my use case isn't standard. I've shot probably 20 or so hours of video since getting it and have taken 6000-7000 photos since getting it in August so I think I'm getting quite a balanced use out of it. If anyone's curious I'm using it for a new tech reviewing channel I've started on YouTube - Hamer Reviews. Interestingly I've seen more and more tourists wandering around London with Z50's so there's clearly some appeal somewhere.
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| Posted by jk: Tue Jan 7th, 2020 11:13 | 17th Post |
| Interesting to hear your feedback Chris. I really like my Z7 but I dont do any video.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by chrishamer: Tue Jan 7th, 2020 11:30 | 18th Post |
jk wrote:Interesting to hear your feedback Chris.Yep they are great cameras, especially once you've tweaked the menus to make it a bit better - I feel my D600 needed much less work to get it to work well! Fair play on the Z7 - to be honest the Z6 is more capable on video due to differences in downsampling to 4K from 24mpx vs 40 odd. Mind you I really want one for the enhanced stills capability.
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| Posted by novicius: Wed Jan 8th, 2020 14:05 | 19th Post |
| What`s Wrong with that Avatar...changed it some time ago and now it`s changed back...yet my profile shows the new avatar ???????
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Jan 16th, 2020 23:25 | 20th Post |
| Maybe a bit late replying (for some reason I missed this post) you may need to flush your cache. The two avatars seem the same from here. If it's still wrong try PMing Chris.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Iain: Fri Jan 17th, 2020 03:42 | 21st Post |
| I noticed when I was watching a Gordon Buchanan program that when he needs to travel light he uses a Nikon for his videos.
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| Posted by Robert: Fri Jan 17th, 2020 08:28 | 22nd Post |
| I have read many disparaging comments about the Z bodies and lenses. It's a very pleasant change to read this from Lens Rentals on a take apart (they call it a 'teardown',it's anything but that) of a Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 lens.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by chrishamer: Fri Jan 17th, 2020 09:43 | 23rd Post |
Robert wrote:I have read many disparaging comments about the Z bodies and lenses. It's a very pleasant change to read this from Lens Rentals on a take apart (they call it a 'teardown',it's anything but that) of a Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 lens.I honestly don't get it to be honest, my two theories are that the high prices of the 1.8 lenses made everyone judge them without trying them and the second is that people ripping into the Z kit online just want to convince themselves they don't want them? Other than the lack of 3D tracking and slightly worse night time AF I find it exactly the same in terms of ease of operation as the D600 and D800. In fact I've found a lot of it easier. Not surprised to see people happy with the video quality, I honestly think the 4K looks great. I found this article very interesting http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/2019-mirrorless-camera/july-september-2019-mirrorl/a-nikon-mirrorless-safari.html
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| Posted by Robert: Fri Jan 17th, 2020 10:22 | 24th Post |
| Yes, that was a very good article, thanks for posting the link.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Fri Jan 17th, 2020 10:40 | 25th Post |
I have so many F mount lenses that I see little or no need to buy S mount lenses even though I am sure they are very desirable. I have thd FTZ adapter which works very well on all my AFS lenses and if not then that qaint thing called manual focus can be done.  My other big issue is S mount wont fit, or focus to infinity, on F mount cameras.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by chrishamer: Fri Jan 17th, 2020 11:06 | 26th Post |
jk wrote:I have so many F mount lenses that I see little or no need to buy S mount lenses even though I am sure they are very desirable. I have thd FTZ adapter which works very well on all my AFS lenses and if not then that qaint thing called manual focus can be done.Absolutely, makes sense, if you have F mount glass - especially if it's high end the actual benefits would be negligible. Personally I never had that many lenses, the only ones I sold were a couple of AF-D ones as they were a bit pointless on the Z6. I've found the 24-70 F4S great as a travel lens, and the 50mm 1.8S has proven pretty impressive too. I'll get some more S lenses eventually, but I'm going to prioritise a 200-500 5.6 before getting the 14-30 F4S and maybe the 70-200 2.8S
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| Posted by jk: Fri Jan 17th, 2020 11:19 | 27th Post |
| The 200-500 is a great lens. Works brilliantly on the D500 for birding but also on the D850. However on D850 the high MP and long focal length leaves you compromising on shutter speed or high ISO. I reckon the higher MPs force you up one or even two stops of shutter speed compared with 24MP. On your Z6 it should work well.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Jan 18th, 2020 04:20 | 28th Post |
| What occurred to me when I first saw the Z specification was that there would be a plethora of adaptors made for almost any lens old and new. That is happening, most possible combinations are now readily available and the list is growing, presenting the ability to place a very competent sensor behind almost any glass. For some, perhaps many, that is irrelevant but for those who venture out of the box it's priceless. To spite the inevitable naysayers, Nikon have I believe created a masterpiece which will evolve as the D series did. I would love to see a take apart account of dismantling a Z camera, I suspect the innards are every bit as well made as the 24-70 f/2.8 lens.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jan 18th, 2020 05:12 | 29th Post |
| Yes the adapters are definitely coming. I have a Nikon to FujiX adapter that has an element in it that allows the Fuji to have the same FOV as on my Nikon. So my Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro behaves the same as on my Nikon. I want a similar adapter but Hasselblad lens to Z mount. Actually what I really want is my Hasselblad 2000FCW with 30mm f4, 80mm f2.8, and 150mm f4 back but with a full size 60x60mm (in reality 56x56mm) digital back. I do not want to have to process film or prints again.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Jan 18th, 2020 13:53 | 30th Post |
jk wrote:Actually what I really want is my Hasselblad 2000FCW with 30mm f4, 80mm f2.8, and 150mm f4 back but with a full size 60x60mm (in reality 56x56mm) digital back. I do not want to have to process film or prints again.Yes indeed I would have thought it would be desirable on many fronts, this trend to ever smaller sensors somehow misses the point, I desperately miss my Bronica S2a despite the reversed image. I don't miss the film aspect.
____________________ Robert. |
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