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| Exposure Challenge - Grip and GrinCan you achieve perfect exposure with hotshoe flash? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by Doug: Tue Jun 5th, 2012 09:08 | 1st Post |
| Another challenge - this one to see how you control your flash and avoid monotonous exposure adjustments in post production. The situation: A large room with hundreds of people enjoying a function. The task is to record this event taking shots of individuals, couples and groups Available light is high, harsh and weak (tungsten) To shoot with the available (unflattering) light would require 1/15, ISO 800 and f2.8 (at one end of the room with even less light at the other end). Even with a D3 that can shoot at high ISO without flash the high harsh light source creates horrible unflattering shadows which must be suppressed Additional lighting is a must. Lots of alcohol is being consumed and you have an hour before people (and the room) start to look the worse for wear. You must deliver at least 80 different images after unsatisfactory poses are deleted (i.e. images only get deleted for aesthetic rather than technical reasons) The fee is low, environment challenging and expectations from the client are high. How do you ensure that your exposure is such that zero effort is required to correct images to a satisfactory standard? [Aargh - hotSHOE - stupid autocorrect] Sorted Doug. 
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| Posted by Doug: Wed Jun 6th, 2012 10:03 | 2nd Post |
| No takers, surely this is not that much of a challenge?
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| Posted by jk: Wed Jun 6th, 2012 17:00 | 3rd Post |
| Take the photos as people entry the room by making then go down a red carpet just like they do at the Oscars. The area for shooting is evenly and well lit.
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| Posted by richw: Thu Jun 7th, 2012 02:09 | 4th Post |
Doug wrote:
This sentence provides the answer for me - I wouldn't!
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| Posted by richw: Thu Jun 7th, 2012 02:16 | 5th Post |
| However, if I had to (major blackmail would be required) I'd probably use my D3s, a really right stuff flash bracket, pump the ISO to 1600 and use my SB800 with extra battery pack attached and diffuser in place and shoot away using TTL in Apeture priority with the 24-70mm f2.8 wide open for individual portraits or at f5.6 to f8 for groups. I reckon that would get the job done.
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| Posted by Robert: Thu Jun 7th, 2012 03:33 | 6th Post |
richw wrote:Doug wrote: And possibly the reason you haven't been inundated with replies Doug. I lost interest at that point too. Low fee and high client expectations don't make good bedfellows.
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| Posted by jk: Thu Jun 7th, 2012 08:13 | 7th Post |
richw wrote:Doug wrote: That was definitely my first thought. If it dont pay well then it doesnt pay well enough to risk upsetting a client.
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| Posted by jk: Thu Jun 7th, 2012 08:13 | 8th Post |
richw wrote:Doug wrote: That was definitely my first thought. If it dont pay well then it doesnt pay well enough to risk upsetting a client.
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| Posted by Doug: Thu Jun 7th, 2012 17:33 | 9th Post |
| Ok. let me rephrase. It pays well enough provided you spend an hour shooting and no more than 30 minutes in post production (lets say this would work out to $400/hour) 1 hour shooting plus 2 Hours in post brings it down to only $200/hour Anyway, the challenge wasn't 'would you shoot it' but 'HOW would you shoot it'? Rich. In your experience does the approach you have suggested provide results that don't require each file to then be tweaked by inconsistent amounts?
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| Posted by richw: Thu Jun 7th, 2012 18:57 | 10th Post |
Doug wrote:Ok. let me rephrase. Honestly Doug I tweak everything! :thumbsup: I would expect the majority to be OK and would probably find batches taken in a similar area that all required similar tweaking. For this type of job I'd load all into Lightroom and apply the portrait camera calibration with a slight vignette and sharpening on the way in (I have a preset for this). I'd also rename with something suitable at the import and apply a couple of keywords here to identify the job. I'd expecting most to be OK with just this, however I'd run through a quick slide show (select all then Cmd + Return) and then use the ''X' key to flag those for deletion, and hitting '6' to flag anything that needs further work with a red label. I'd then delete the rejected and filter the red. My first stop here given the stingy client would be auto correct, and often that would be enough. If there are a batch in very weird lighting where this all has still not combined for a usable photo I'd adjust one to taste (and I can do this very quickly these days) and use synch settings on it's neighbors. All in all I'd not expect it to take too long and I believe the camera would produce pretty good results with the flash as a starting point. I'd then use Lightroom to do the output, whether that be to a CD/DVD/Thumb drive as a Jpg or to a printer. Given the low fee Photoshop would not get opened! (Unless there was a shot in there I liked for personal reasons).
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| Posted by jk: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 03:01 | 11th Post |
| Doug, ifyou were twisting my arm to do this I would use the method I initially suggested. Everyone arrives in a reasonable state so photos are best taken at the arrival point. If you put up a room plan or entry hall plan that I could mark up then I could suggest better.
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| Posted by Doug: Sun Jun 10th, 2012 20:39 | 12th Post |
richw wrote:I'd probably use my D3s....The best camera available was my D200 jk wrote: Take the photos as people entry the room by making then go down a red carpet just like they do at the Oscars. The area for shooting is evenly and well lit.How does this satisfy the brief 'hundreds of people enjoying a function. The task is to record the event taking shots of individuals, couples and groups' jk wrote: Doug, ifyou were twisting my arm to do this I would use the method I initially suggested.The job is already done to a very satisfactory standard and only 1 hour plus 30 minutes in post required. I was curious to see how others might approach the challenge - room plan is irrelevant. All necessary info was provided. It is an event where people are in the room enjoying their evening and need to be recorded while doing so. This is the room (the lightest half of it) 800 ISO 1/13 f4  These shots are straight out of the camera with no tweaking 800 ISO 1/60 f4  800 ISO 1/13 f4 (1/13 was a mistake - I forget to set back to 1/60 after shooting the room overview shots)  My post was intended to draw you guys out and see if anyone else felt comfortable and had a reliable technique in such a challenging situation, but the answers worry me with most seeming quite happy to turn away work or point and shoot offering nil advantage over the mwac (mom with a camera) who will do it for next to nothing richw wrote: My first stop here given the stingy client would be auto correct, and often that would be enough.The image below shows what auto correct produces - right side (compared to the perfectly well exposed image that skill permits us to achieve straight from the camera) Note the overexposed highlights to the ears and forehead, the overexposed hand on the shoulder, the graininess that has appeared in the background all of which vie for the viewers attention  Btw. What would you guys quote to turn up and spend a single hour working the room? What about if you are working for another photographer? What would your part of the fee be then and would/could you refuse on the basis that it doesn't pay enough? What if you were paying another photographer to shoot this for you - what would you pay him/her? Dollar amounts please - I'm very curious
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| Posted by richw: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 02:50 | 13th Post |
| You've quoted me out of context Doug, the first thing I said I'd do is a quick slide show and label red anything requiring adjustment and then filter on this to select those that did need it. In the case shown your original clearly did not need editing. I also believe that the technique I described with the camera would produce suitable results on the D3s, on my D200 I'd not push the ISO so far. You have produced some great images, but I believe what I described would also have got some good images, and I am a firm believer in KISS. I'm not a pro and have never taken a paying photo gig in my life, but having been drawn into your thread because you seemed to wish for a reply I have to say the Mum with camera response is a little hurtful. Having said that one mum with camera that I know is a full time photographer for the SMH, and very well published and awarded so I guess it would depend on the mum.
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| Posted by Doug: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 08:47 | 14th Post |
richw wrote:You've quoted me out of context Doug, the first thing I said I'd do is a quick slide show and label red anything requiring adjustment and then filter on this to select those that did need it. In the case shown your original clearly did not need editing.On re-reading I agree. My original challenge though, was for the post production to require zero effort with editing only to consist of the first part you describe without need for further filtering to 'fix' failures BTW I couldn't always shoot like this and in the film days I would shoot negative for the latitude using far less forgiving slide film only when the luxury of a light meter was available. In the early days of digital I used the 'take a shot take a look technique' (The adjustments that you are undertaking after the shoot were at that time performed by the minilab operator producing my proofs) It is only in the last couple of years that I have become really comfortable with getting it right in camera even when using flash and wondered if anyone else had achieved the same level of confidence. richw wrote: I also believe that the technique I described with the camera would produce suitable results on the D3s, on my D200 I'd not push the ISO so far. You have produced some great images, but I believe what I described would also have got some good images, and I am a firm believer in KISS.KISS is fine, but I believe that leaving with complete and final images on the card is simpler than even minor corrections later richw wrote: I'm not a pro and have never taken a paying photo gig in my life, but having been drawn into your thread because you seemed to wish for a reply I have to say the Mum with camera response is a little hurtful.I'm not sure why this was hurtful. Do you fit the criteria?  :rasper:MWAC - Definitionrichw wrote: Having said that one mum with camera that I know is a full time photographer for the SMH, and very well published and awarded so I guess it would depend on the mum.Agreed. I know several good photographers who are Mum's, but they are not MWACs. An MWAC is not burdened by the need to make a profit or the understanding of what it means to undermine someone else's livelihood.
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| Posted by jk: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 10:06 | 15th Post |
| Think I would pass and ask for an invitation to the wine tasting. Which vineyard Doug?.
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| Posted by jk: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 10:08 | 16th Post |
| MUM Mum ??
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 10:42 | 17th Post |
| Mom? :popcorn: Who Spilt the red in Post 12? 
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| Posted by Doug: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 10:57 | 18th Post |
jk wrote:Think I would pass and ask for an invitation to the wine tasting.I think there were about 700 wines from across the country Since it was part of the 'Shiraz Challenge' I guess they were all Shiraz Robert wrote: Mom? I don't know, but it ruined the shot
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