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| Movies With D800How well does the D800 work with movie production? | Rating: 
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Jul 13th, 2012 13:51 | 1st Post |
| As some of you may know I am publish steam railway DVDs and BluRay (see http://www.gwpvideo.com). I shoot using Sony Pro High Def Camcorders 1920x1080 25fps PAL UK Standard. Results from the Sony Equipment produce very high quality BluRay discs and the DVDs are good to. We use Adobe Premier and Encore CS5 and now are on the new CS6. So how well will the D800 compare with our Sony equipment for shooting steam railway DVDs? For a start the D800 uses the same 1920x1080 25fps PAL settings, finished footage shows no advantage in terms of colour or sharpness but fine detail is of a very high order. On time line with Sony pro AVCHD footage it is a fair match but no better. You can only shoot using live view, very hard to use out doors in sun even using a loop it is not easy to check focus and compose. The D800 does not have steady-cam so hand held movie is very unsteady and not suitable for professional use. Hand holding with the Sony has state of art steady-cam and first-class eye level viewfinder and well as fold out LCD so you have best of both types of viewing. To get steady pix with the D800 you must use a pro video tripod and quality fluid head all the time. The D800 manual settings are tucked away in Menus and not easy to get to when you are doing action shooting. It is almost impossible to do smooth zooming with still photography type zoom lenses. Pro movie cameras have good progressive motor driven zoom lenses made for the job. Auto focus sort of works but is very poor compared with using the D800 camera for stills. One would need a pro follow focus device and these cost serious money and require skill to use. Sound is another story. The D800 needs to be wired into a pro mixer and sound system with quality mikes. The built in mike on D800 is only mono and wind noise outdoors is a night-mare. I do have the Nikon ME-1 Stereo Mike with wind shield fits on hot-shoe. It is OK in light wind but heavy wind is bad news. Sound quality is OK but for interviews you would still need full pro mike set-up. If you were a news photographer on a solo hot story your D800 stills pix would be world beating but any D800 movie better than nothing but not up to the standard you could get with any pro camcorder and even some of the sub £1000 little camcorders could do better.(THE D800 IS THE DSLR I HAVE HAVE OWNED TO DATE BUT NOT FOR MOVIE) WHAT DO OTHER USERS THINK?
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Fri Jul 13th, 2012 14:09 | 2nd Post |
| Thank you for taking the time to report on your findings Graham, not an unqualified thumbs up then. No doubt the D800 video will have a place but it's not a substitute for the real thing it seems.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by TomOC: Fri Jul 13th, 2012 14:52 | 3rd Post |
| Never really bought into the concept of the SLR as a movie camera. Seems that the form factor of all the video cameras is far superior to a bulky SLR, no?
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Jul 13th, 2012 16:53 | 4th Post |
| Thanks for that, Graham. It comes as no surprise to me ( being a 16mm film maker of old) that the D800 doesn't pass muster. I have been vocal here on this issue ever since Nikon introduced the video feature on their DSLRs. The ergonomics are all wrong. No matter how good the IQ, you will always be fighting the equipment. In fact, this whole subject leaves me a little annoyed...that I have to pay for this feature that adds unecessary cost and complicates the still camera I want. It's the main reason I have resisted upgrading my D3. It's about time Nikon started a module approach to cameras...where we buy the base unit and then buy add on software functionality modules for the extra features that we want. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Jul 13th, 2012 17:16 | 5th Post |
| Eric you are so right ergonomics are all important. When hand holding even more so we use Sony's NX5E medium sized AVCHD, x3 CMOS Chips, Camcorders they are very well balanced for hand holding and you can pull the eye-piece into you face,with hands holding the camera body firmly on both sides. The rocker zoom is well placed on the right sided hand grip. IE a lot of thought has gone into the design. The modern steadycam is very good too. There are two XLR sockets for pro sound cables, the D800 has a small stereo 3.5mm mini-jack, very prone to handling damage. With any DSLR you need to hold it infront of your face and try to see into the LCD, even with a loupe in place it is very hard to get a steady hold and any camera movement on a modern 40inch+ HD TV shows up.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 08:12 | 6th Post |
| These images show some of the rigs that photographers are forced to use to get movies with their DSLRs. I have a Hoodman and it is very good for looking at the LCD in bright light outdoors but not so good for seeing detail focusing when shooting video. Also please note no sound Mike or mixer in the pix. Yes shooting video with a DSLR needs two people! Attachment: Hoodman.jpg (Downloaded 104 times)
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 08:15 | 7th Post |
| I use a DSLR because I want the best tool I can afford to take quality photographs. If I want to take videos, I will buy a video camera so I can get the best quality videos. It's like building a swiss knife. No offense to anyone who uses one, but a swiss knife does many things ok but none really as well as a single application tool.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 09:35 | 8th Post |
| This is the Sony NX5 AVCHD Camcorder I use for shooting my railway films. 1920x1010 full HD quality images suitable for publishing BluRay. Very good steady-cam if you need to hand hold but I use video tripod with good fluid head as much as possible. These camera are solid state and have twin card slots and take x2 SanDisc Extreme SD Cards 32gig with 45GB/s write speed, able to store up to 3 hrs of full HD Video on each card, total 6 hrs none stop filming! Cost is about £4000 plus another £1000.00 for a good stereo mike in pro wind shield. IE about what you would pay for a Nikon D3X and it does for video what a top Nikon DSLR does for stills photography. Attachment: Sony NX5 Camcorder.jpg (Downloaded 104 times)
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Doug: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 11:24 | 9th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:These images show some of the rigs that photographers are forced to use to get movies with their DSLRs. I have a Hoodman and it is very good for looking at the LCD in bright light outdoors but not so good for seeing detail focusing when shooting video. Also please note no sound Mike or mixer in the pix. Yes shooting video with a DSLR needs two people! Those who eschewed Video long after most of us declared film dead have long since become accustomed to these sorts of contraptions and would find plenty of flaws with your Sony (mostly relating to the look of the image) This is what some of those guys once used to obtain the look they wanted with the convenience of digital editing etc;  At the end of the day it's about choosing the right tool for the job (visit http://philipbloom.net/ to learn lots about the pros and cons of shooting with various cameras) BTW, Graham please - it's a Loupe (sorry)
____________________ Recent & Popular posts ProCapture | Genius on Demand Blog |
| Posted by Doug: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 12:02 | 10th Post |
BTW something like this would negate the need for the loupe or this amazing external recorder (apparently the D800 does amazingly clean hdmi output) http://www.sounddevices.com/products/pix240/  But what you really need is this setup 
____________________ Recent & Popular posts ProCapture | Genius on Demand Blog |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 12:13 | 11th Post |
| Doug that last pix makes my point. I do not know what "health and safety" would say if I turned up at a railway to film with kit like that. Loupe corrected thanks spelling not my strong point. Yes in past I no choice and had too used very large movie and video cameras the only way to get quality. I also needed several people in my team. The point I'm making is that small light portable cameras enable a 71 yr old like me able to carry on filming, travel the World and more important enjoying what I do. I am also able to work single handed with the more compact kit. None of my clients complain about the image quality on the finished DVDs or BluRays made with NX5. My camera bag contains Nikon D800 and Sony NX5 movie kit and counts as hand baggage on most airlines. PS no complaints on movie image quality from the D800 they are very clean and sharp. With Premier CS6 and the new warp control software it is possible to get away with some hand holding.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 13:36 | 12th Post |
| Graham, I don't think you would have to show up, the thing looks totally robotic - just give it instructions and wait for it to return.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Doug: Sun Jul 15th, 2012 08:11 | 13th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Doug that last pix makes my point. I do not know what "health and safety" would say if I turned up at a railway to film with kit like that. Loupe corrected thanks spelling not my strong point. The author said as much at the original page Philip Bloom - "The Zacuto cage (pimped up beyond practicality but for fun above!)" http://philipbloom.net/2010/06/28/zacuto-dslr-cage-jag-35-cage-view-factor-cage/
____________________ Recent & Popular posts ProCapture | Genius on Demand Blog |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jul 16th, 2012 13:14 | 14th Post |
 Thanks for taking the time to give us feedback on this part of the D800. I have always said that video has little interest to me as while I like to see good video footage (should that be megabytage these days) I know I havent the skill to do it myself. I always believe in best tools for the job. The D800 is a stills camera that can do video not a video camera. So I'd say to anyone get a video camera if you want video.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Jul 16th, 2012 17:49 | 15th Post |
| There is no doubt that the D800 can record very good quality movie footage but to get a serious use out of it you need to put on a lot of add on bits, so why not use the correct tool for the job in the first place? Doug's third image states the case!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Jul 17th, 2012 01:30 | 16th Post |
| So reading this inside out so to speak, if I don't want sound, I don't want to zoom or alter the focus during recording and I am recording a fairly static subject which doesn't need follow focus, panning or tilting, with the camera mounted on a tripod, then I should be fine. Good, that's all I need, together with some time to get out again to some botanic gardens to make some video recordings of plants gently swaying in the breeze.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Jul 17th, 2012 03:44 | 17th Post |
| I don't want to zoom or alter the focus during recording and "I am recording a fairly static subject which doesn't need follow focus, panning or tilting, with the camera mounted on a tripod, then I should be fine." Robert you have it, but you would still need to compose & shoot using live view. You may also find that focus needs to be on Manual. I find with movie the D800 does not always lock on too well with auto focus. You would be well impressed with the quality of your footage so I hope my comments in this topic have not been all against the D800. The output from HDMI is of a very high order as stated by several other serious users. Very clean and very sharp with super results even at high ISO so you can see why some major film makers like to use DSLRs.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Jul 17th, 2012 04:07 | 18th Post |
Robert wrote:So reading this inside out so to speak, if I don't want sound, I don't want to zoom or alter the focus during recording and I am recording a fairly static subject which doesn't need follow focus, panning or tilting, with the camera mounted on a tripod, then I should be fine. I am from the old school of movie makers who believe that they are 'moving pictures' not 'moving cameras'. Zooming, panning, tilting, even focus pulling should be kept to a minimum....unless you want your audience seasick or agitated.....or both. Good editing can add all the impact you need ....provided the cameraman took adequate cutaways and alternative angles. For me the rear view finder is the killer. Being fixed ( not sure a rotating screen would be much better in daylight!) it restricts camera positioning. Sure you can buy afterthought add ons but for me they are indicative of something trying to be something else....and that applies to the photographer as well. Personally, when I was filming, I never took an slr with me....and vice versa.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Jul 17th, 2012 04:14 | 19th Post |
| I prefer MF lenses anyway, I have found I can use the live view to critical focus by zooming in then back out. I think all that remains is for me to understand the various formats, frame rates and quality settings for recording, editing and playing back with video, there seem to be so many, without justification. It will come, I just need to play a bit! I don't think you have been harsh on the D800, seems to me you have given it a very fair comparison. However, I do think there is a case for for DSLR video recording where the user can't even begin to justify spending five to ten thousand pounds to gear up for video for just a few short, simple but good quality clips of video. No doubt there are also some specialised applications where the DSLR can provide a different input style in some movies which the smaller format professional video cameras can't. So I am sure they do have applications for some, but they are not a replacement for a real, full time video camera, any more than the stills a video camera can produce will replace a DSLR.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Jul 17th, 2012 04:45 | 20th Post |
| JK did ask me to start a movie topic so any more comments would be interesting. Have any of more you used Nikon DSLRs for shooting movie, lets hear what you think?
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Tue Jul 17th, 2012 05:35 | 21st Post |
Robert wrote: So reading this inside out so to speak, if I don't want sound, I don't want to zoom or alter the focus during recording and I am recording a fairly static subject which doesn't need follow focus, panning or tilting, with the camera mounted on a tripod, then I should be fine. So a D800 for you as well then Robert ?
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Jul 17th, 2012 06:28 | 22nd Post |
 Don't think so JK maybe a D600 if they ever appear?As far as movies are concerned I think my D3100 will produce all the video quality I need. My biggest concern is how fine detail like grass or fine leaves moving will behave in video, it could turn into a mess of pixels as the image dithers between pixels. This was the issue I found with my Sony video camera at standard definition.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Jul 17th, 2012 07:18 | 23rd Post |
Graham Whistler wrote: JK did ask me to start a movie topic so any more comments would be interesting. Have any of more you used Nikon DSLRs for shooting movie, lets hear what you think? Used several iterrations of the movie function since it came out. In the early days, focus was woeful....so I stopped even trying it out on the D300. The D7000 (our current walkaround version) produces good images but I still feel I am fighting focusing....along with its ergonomics. The weight, shape and balance requirements of a DSLR do not lend themselves to holding away from the eye....especially for 5-10 sec sequences over extended periods. It can only be used on a tripod or maybe some expensive steady cam contraption. That, at the outset, is a limitation. My other critique is the use of the Live view LCD as the viewing screen. I was filming a beach scene last week. White pebbles in sunlight behind me ....I couldnt even see the green focus square! Yes I know I can add on some 'aids'....but there's more... The view screen being in line with the lens means low angle horizontal shots get you down on your knees. (not nice on a wet shingle beach) Maybe its because I have work related neck damage but holding a camera at eye level and viewing distance, or even bending down and tilting my head back when mounted on a tripod is uncomfortable for prolonged periods. The only way I can look through the LCD is by getting down below it and looking slightly upwards. In fairness this isnt just for filming, DSLRs are also a pain in the neck when shooting low and horizontal ....even in the studio! Far better is an adjustable viewfinder. I am afraid no matter how good the image quality, the experience of filming isnt comfortable for me. I was once asked by an audience member (I was guest panellist on a wildlife programme that Anglia TV did some years ago) "What is the most important piece of equipment for a wildlife cameraman?" I replied "a cushion". After the laughter died down I made the point that if you arent as 'comfortable as possible' when filming (and waiting to film), no matter how good your equipment is, it shows in your technique. Well that is my belief...and its gotten more relevant the older I get. So the DSLR film feature will always be relegated to an afterthought for me. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Jul 17th, 2012 17:38 | 24th Post |
| Eric I agree 100% and my Sony NX5 as show above does a super job on movie and is easy to use and pulls in the quality without fuss. Just like the D800 does for my still photography there is a place for both.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Wed Jul 18th, 2012 10:01 | 25th Post |
| I have not seen anyone so far who claims to want the current video capability on their Dxxx/Dxxxx camera. I am sure their are some folks who use it from time to time but I think most serious still photographers find little use for the capability as it now stands. So, why would Nikon decide to include a little used feature and one that most feel needs significant improvement to make it a useable product? What's in it for Nikon? Would folks switch to Canon or other brands if Nikon eliminated video from say the D7000 and up?
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Jul 18th, 2012 10:56 | 26th Post |
Squarerigger wrote:I have not seen anyone so far who claims to want the current video capability on their Dxxx/Dxxxx camera. I am sure their are some folks who use it from time to time but I think most serious still photographers find little use for the capability as it now stands. I think it's summed up by the old comedy phrase... "never mind the quality, feel the width" It's all about 'fit for purpose' and I am afraid 'it will do' is the more common order of the day. The general populous are getting dumber and less discerning. Just look at tv programmes for evidence. It's all sensationalism and little sensitivity. So Nikon are going with the flow. But there is also the commercial media world to consider. The single skilled reporter is a thing of the past. Now they need to do stills, films and the copy....to save money. Beyond that, you might argue that it's in the industry's further interest to 'better equip the general public'. They already get free footage and snaps from phones. So getting even wobbly HD results sent in for free is an improvement. Just my two cents.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Jul 18th, 2012 11:21 | 27th Post |
| It was interesting that when I saw the D800 at the Broadcast show in London early this year the Nikon stand with the just out D800 hardly had any of the Broadcast and Pro TV and Film people going to their stand. Very good news for me as I spent nearly an hour playing with the new camera and getting all the info I needed. A few weeks later at Focus in Birmingham nobody could get near the Nikon stand so may photographers wanting to see the D800 and D5! So that is how I got my order in so quickly and got the new camera in time for my trip to USA.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Wed Jul 18th, 2012 11:37 | 28th Post |
| You are probably right Eric. Not having been in the business world I am often taken aback by what corporate America does but I was looking for better out of the Japanese. In America, I think most of the corporate budget is used for advertising with a small fraction on the sub par product manufactured. As a side note, not too long ago the manufacturer of my favorite cracker changed the box from a regular cereal type box to one I can not describe. It would not stack on the grocer shelves, nor in my pantry and it was just baffling to me what genius thought this up. For the first time in my life I sat down and wrote a letter to a company letting them know what I thought. A few weeks later I received some coupons and a letter in the mail. They were sorry I was not pleased but no one else had a problem so shut up and just be happy we will sell you the crackers. Well, low and behold, two weeks ago I was shopping and went to reach for my crackers and they were back in the original box. Not sure this story has any significance but there must have been more folks than myself who hated the box and they changed it back. Maybe we are not letting our displeasure with a product get to the manufacturer before we just switch and they don't know why? Maybe I am just showing my age and I am sick and tired of "multitasking" or doesn't do anything well just a bunch of things mediocre. Wore myself out and need my afternoon nap now. then maybe a beverage and some of my reborn crackers and cheese. 
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Jul 18th, 2012 12:49 | 29th Post |
Squarerigger wrote:You are probably right Eric. Not having been in the business world I am often taken aback by what corporate America does but I was looking for better out of the Japanese. Very good tale. These sort of packaging gaffs are quite common. I worked for some years for a major food manufacturer who also have a Petfoods division. We had a really good packaging designer, and John would mockup every new concept and do all sorts of stack and transit trials. It was quite interesting to watch him in action. He used to have a phrase when other people didn't do things correctly "it's an absolute indictment!" he would exclaim. Having a slight lisp and higher pitch voice always seemed to add more venom and impact! But I digress... Our Petfoods division came up with a new dog food called flick. It went right through testing and packaging design of sorts...into production with supposedly the required attention to detail. It was not until the marketing guys got a call to come to the warehouse anyone knew there was an issue with the packaging design. They had used capital letters on the labels...and there were pallet after pallet, floor to ceiling, proudly displaying FLICK (squint and condense the letters!!!) Needless to say the packaing was scrapped. "It's an absolute indictment!" exclaimed John. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Jul 18th, 2012 18:13 | 30th Post |
| Well, we may have decided that the DSLR is not a prime tool for video but for some strange reason it seems to have attracted unprecedented interest. Even more the the "Mac or ?" thread... The number of hits is staggering for such a small forum with only 94 members:  Not sure if it might raise our hosting costs JK? The bandwidth must be being stretched. Even if we find DSLR's unsuitable for video, there are going on for 9,000 visitors to this thread who have at least searched this subject and shown an interest. Maybe Nikon is on to something after all? Unless of course the hits were looking for Utube? 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Jul 19th, 2012 03:56 | 31st Post |
Robert wrote: Or maybe a lot of people are mystified at why they cant get the results they expected and are searching for a solution. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Jul 19th, 2012 04:24 | 32nd Post |
Eric wrote:Robert wrote:Maybe Nikon is on to something after all?Or maybe a lot of people are mystified at why they cant get the results they expected and are searching for a solution. Now that's a possibility which hadn't occurred to me Eric.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Jul 19th, 2012 05:11 | 33rd Post |
Robert wrote: Eric wrote:I am just a cynical old B. I suspect its just flavour of the month. If you look at all D800 references they score higher than surrounding items. When the D400 arrives there will be a similar surge of interest.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Jul 19th, 2012 07:18 | 34th Post |
| What about the D600 ???:popcorn:
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Thu Jul 19th, 2012 08:05 | 35th Post |
| Back to D800 movies... I have made some with the same results already noted - difficult to hold steady, difficult to see the LCD in sunlight, losing focus, etc. I do like the ability to make time-lapse videos, though, and have had some interesting results. I don't think it's such a big deal to include any of these little-used features into what is primarily a still-photo DSLR. They don't add any hardware cost. They are implemented through additional software that tells the camera to do different things with the hardware that's already there. "Mirror up. Shutter open. Read sensor. Send data to LCD. Grab a frame, crop it to 1080, send it to memory. Repeat 30 times per second..." Yes, they had to pay programmers to write the software, but they probably outsourced that to India so it was cheap.
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by Brad Neal: Fri Jul 20th, 2012 15:37 | 36th Post |
| I own a video production company, and tend to lean old-school as well, when it comes to my video gear. I still use the large (and very, very expensive) cameras. We did just purchase a Panasonic HPX-250 hand-held (remarkable images, by the way), and have only toyed with the video capabilities now available on the DSLR's. My experience was pretty much inline with most of the other comments mentioned in this thread... clunky feeling, forget auto-focus, hard to see the image on the tiny LCD, etc... But having said that, in the right hands, and properly equipped, DSLR's are capable of producing stunning footage, and have been used in some of Hollywood's latest and greatest current releases - namely; The Avengers, Captain America, Iron man 2, and many others. You do have to tool them up, but once you get the hang of it, they deliver cinema-quality footage at a fraction of the cost. Canon has pretty much taken the lead in this category with their 5D MK II, so I'm sure that's why Nikon has been so aggressive with pushing the video quality of their newer releases. But I can assure that DSLR's are all the rage with indi shooters, and as mentioned above, even the big boys in Hollywood. So as for still photographers being lured to a particular DSLR because of the video capabilities, well, it probably ain't gonna happen. But Cinematographers are all over them. Also, both Panasonic and Sony have developed DSLR-like video cameras that are more ergonomically suited for video, but they are really just DSLR's in a different chassis. It's all about being able to use 35mm prime lenses and the larger sensors that is driving the DSLR movie market. -Brad
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jul 21st, 2012 04:21 | 37th Post |
| Brad thank you for that, you are quite right. What I am saying as a DVD/Blue Ray railway produstion filming on railways a DSLR is not the best tool compared with any pro video camcorder. I too have in the past used Betacam SP and Digital Betacam. For my type of filming now the portable and reasonable priced Sony NX5 does a very good job. The D800 produces first class Movie footage and on a time line with AVCHD footage from the Sony NX5 it is sharper and colour is great, but when you output to BluRay or DVD there is little or no gain in the final result. No doubt on the Cinema you are dealing with a very large final image size, so I can see that high quality Nikon or Canon prime lenses and large sensors could be a major advantage. More so now with more and more feature films being shot digital and the likes of Kodak in serious trouble. I understand more that 50% of UK cinemas are now using digital projectors so film will soon be a thing of the past.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Brad Neal: Sat Jul 21st, 2012 10:44 | 38th Post |
| I completely agree, Graham. It doesn't fit my workflow either. They are capable of shooting some stunning footage, but they are not a good option for the run and gun stuff that we are called to do.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Jul 29th, 2012 04:36 | 39th Post |
| No doubt some of you will have seen the latest copy of "Nikon Pro" the official NPS UK Nikon magazine. The D4 and D800 are now regarded by video broadcasters to be the first DSLR ever to be up to standard for very high end film and TV production. IE they have passed the very elaborate European Broadcast Union (EBU) test often called the BBC Test. These tests showed that both D4 and D800 exhibited the lowest amount of rolling shutter they have ever seen on a COMOS equipped camera. Other tests showed the two cameras to be very close to top grade broadcast cameras. Also praised for remarkable low light performance and the D800 was thought to be exceptional value given it's very high performance. As stated my modest tests proved the D800 to produce very high quality moving images but I still stand by all my remarks in this topic at how difficult it it to use a DSLR for location filming compared with a pro video camera, but no complaints on final image quality in an edited video film.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Jul 29th, 2012 17:54 | 40th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:No doubt some of you will have seen the latest copy of "Nikon Pro" the official NPS UK Nikon magazine. The D4 and D800 are now regarded by video broadcasters to be the first DSLR ever to be up to standard for very high end film and TV production. IE they have passed the very elaborate European Broadcast Union (EBU) test often called the BBC Test. I suspect the desire to have a multifunctional camera body outweighs the operational awkwardness for some people.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jul 30th, 2012 05:29 | 41st Post |
| Has anyone used the Red range of video cameras. http://www.red.com/products/red-one/ They seem to be very upmarket probably not as high cost as real top end video but still too expensive for me.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Jul 31st, 2012 01:38 | 42nd Post |
| Very much in the high end of broadcast TV, commercials and feature film production. They have been around some time now 3-4 years?
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Nov 12th, 2012 04:16 | 43rd Post |
| There was a lot of interest in this posting but it cooled off 31 July. I was checking to see if there have been any of our members who have had a go at using the camera for movie work and if so what were results like? I am writing a review on the D800 for the RPS to be published early next year and want more movie hands on info if possible please.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Jan 6th, 2013 05:55 | 44th Post |
| Still no news from any of you re shooting movies with D800 and am just in process of finishing my write up for the RPS magazine. My thoughts on using DSLR for movie work are still the same. The quality of movie footage from the D800 is of a very high order but as a publisher of BLuRay and DVDs my Sony NX5 (AVCHD format high def) Camcorder is so much easier to use and image quality is more than I need. The D800 needs a lot of bolt ons to even compose and focus, also auto focus does not work well for movie and there is no steady-cam for hand holding! Zooming with a DSLR lens is also a no no. On board sound is also poor so you need to plug in a good pro mike through a portable audio mixer.....
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jan 6th, 2013 07:13 | 45th Post |
| Thanks for the update Graham. I do wonder when I see some of the recent news footage in USA where I see PJs with D800s on a tripod doing movies with the camera. I guess it works well for news as they can also scoop frames for single images to sell to newspapers.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Jan 6th, 2013 16:28 | 46th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote: Still no news from any of you re shooting movies with D800 and am just in process of finishing my write up for the RPS magazine.Well not a D800 but the D7000 shares the same ergonomic shortcomings. I have just bought my wife a Panasonic camcorder and expect to retire the D7000. The fact is, DSLR video, despite the inherent quality, requires 'film maker' attention to detail technique to realise it. What I mean by that is, without a rotatable LCD and better placed buttons, handholding is a joke...you HAVE to use a tripod. (even then, the viewing angle of the rear LCD isn't comfortable). I won't go on listing. Not everyone sets about using a video camera to make 'films'. They certainly dont start with a shooting script or even consider taking a tripod with them. As a former 16mm filmmaker I am trying to help my wife improve her filming technique. But her filming will always be spontaneous and she could not use the D7000 for casual videoing. Graham I am also going to upgrade the wife's PC (might even consider a Mac). What do you consider is a good specification that I need to be aiming for ...to handle HD editing?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Jan 6th, 2013 17:38 | 47th Post |
| G5 Mac and Final Cut Pro for editing but changed back to PC and Adobe Premier 5 yrs ago. I am very happy with Prem CS6 quality is very good and a powerful PC and raid handles the AVCHD files. Macs have not developed their editing software in more recent years so for a time I understand AVCHD was heavy going, and needed extra software to burn BluRay. I gather they are catching up now but I am only in a position to advise on PC editing. Sony does good simple editing software that works well for basic AVCHD editing an is reasonably priced.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Jan 6th, 2013 17:56 | 48th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote: G5 Mac and Final Cut Pro for editing but changed back to PC and Adobe Premier 5 yrs ago. I am very happy with Prem CS6 quality is very good and a powerful PC and raid handles the AVCHD files. Macs have not developed their editing software in more recent years so for a time I understand AVCHD was heavy going, and needed extra software to burn BluRay. I gather they are catching up now but I am only in a position to advise on PC editing. Sony does good simple editing software that works well for basic AVCHD editing an is reasonably priced.Thanks My wife has a PC at the moment, so I was really wondering how powerful a hardware spec she NEEDs. Don't want to spoil her too much and over specify...especially after buying her a camcorder! I thought I read somewhere that Apple were not going to support Bluray at all, in the future?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Sun Jan 6th, 2013 18:18 | 49th Post |
| Eric, may be missing something here but why Blue Ray, are you planning on selling the video? If it's for home consumption then an HDMI cable straight to the TV does the job or an Apple TV. I know there are Apple users out there using Blue Ray, I know of many specialised video producers like Graham who are using Apple computers in a big way. Apple may not intend fitting Blue Ray drives in their computers an fact they have just about stopped even fitting DVD drives now because they are obsolete, that doesn't stop anyone plugging one in to a USB slot or using a wifi connection like the Mac Book Air DVD drive. Doug may know more on this?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 02:24 | 50th Post |
| Optical drives offer limited storage compared with some of the newer technologies that are on the horizon. http://m.extremetech.com/extremetech/#!/entry/harvard-cracks-dna-storage-crams-700-terabytes-of-data-into,50ca630594f4be716930187a This is just one of the exotic storage options that I have read about there are others which all target the petabyte range!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by richw: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 03:10 | 51st Post |
| I've just started to tinker with Film, got Adobe Premier as part of my cloud membership. For myself, I'd just store on a hard drive and stream through the apple TV to the Plasma. For friends I'd either use YouTube or send a USB key. But for my Dad I would need to send a disk, even then I have my doubts!
|
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 04:52 | 52nd Post |
| Eric a good friend uses Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD editing software on a laptop for simple good quality editng including BluRay and can also burn DVDs or BluRay off edited film. Cost in UK about £40. I can put you in touch with him if you need more info he authors my gwpvideo.com website.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 08:01 | 53rd Post |
Robert wrote: Eric, may be missing something here but why Blue Ray, are you planning on selling the video? If it's for home consumption then an HDMI cable straight to the TV does the job or an Apple TV. It was Graham who raised the Bluray issue...I was just commenting. If you read his post he also said he has gone back to PC. Personally I don't see a significant improvement from Bluray over HD on an HD television. On a higher res monitor it may be better. I also didn't ask about software (although thanks for your inputs) My original question was about 'upgrading the PC ' ....ie hardware ....as I imagine there is extra processing, memory and storage required when editing.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 08:34 | 54th Post |
Eric wrote:Apple have never supported Blue Ray because their policy on this is that it can be supported better by third party developers, Apple want to concentrate on providing a versatile platform, not specific extras like printers and external components any more.:baffled: There is plenty of support for Blue Ray on Apple computers (I understand) but I have zero experience of this.  I think the software is perhaps more important in the sphere of Video, Find the right software then buy the machine that will run it. The last movi I produced was three and a half minutes long. It took me all my spare time over ten days to edit, process and burn to DVD. Then the school banned me from distributing it to the parents of the children in the video because it broke the school code of privacy.:-( So, my enthusiasm for movies is limited. Have used the icons to force para separation because I don't have firefox on the MBP
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 09:29 | 55th Post |
Robert wrote: Eric wrote:Errr...yes.. I repeat, I was responding to Graham saying in his post he had Bluray software issues when using his Mac.Apple have never supported Blue Ray because their policy on this is that it can be supported better by third party developers, Apple want to concentrate on providing a versatile platform, not specific extras like printers and external components any more.:baffled: I have no personal interest in Bluray whatsoever.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 02:53 | 56th Post |
| I have just finished another of my steam railway DVD/BluRays filming included aerial from helicopter work in Snowdonia: Welsh Highland Railway The Complete Journey. I did take the D800 and tried to give it another go but sorry it is only good for set lock-down shots. For good audio you need a pro mike and sound mixer. On the footplate of a steam loco climbing steep grades it would be almost impossible to use. View-finding with a loop only just works but the loop will not stay in place. I need still pix for the cover but every time you take a still you miss a good movie shot so with regret digital high def video is so good these days you can take all the stills you want of your movie footage! But Nikon D800 is still great and one of best ever SLR cameras I have ever had! Attachment: WHRC2013dvd CoverBarCode.jpg (Downloaded 12 times)
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 03:07 | 57th Post |
| Thanks for the update Graham. Very interesting to hear about real experiences in this field, you must have had a ball making the production. Good luck with the sales! It sounds an exciting video.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 06:13 | 58th Post |
| Thanks for the update Graham. Very interesting your comments about using the D800 and its lack of features for quality movies. There seems to be a proliferation of DSLR cameras with video features. My take on this is that if you want a tractor you dont buy a Ferrari or a pedal car but get a tractor. There is a reason why there is a diversified marketplaces. I still dont fully understand the idea of consolidation of electronics devices. It is very seductive to have an all-in-one device but that assumes that you have such low quality standards that as long as it does 'it' then it's quality is good enough. Sorry not for me.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 07:03 | 59th Post |
| There is no problem with the very high quality of moving image you get out of the camera, in fact good enough to play on a feature film in the cinema! Nikon lenses are very sharp but if you want to pull focus or zoom not good news at all!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 07:13 | 60th Post |
| PS This is us off to do the aerial footage. I would not be very happy in open door and lots of wind holdinq a D800 to my eve with a loop on the back. But the 3rd member of out team took some super stills with the D800 including this shot! Attachment: Heli3438.jpg (Downloaded 10 times)
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 07:58 | 61st Post |
| Love the helicopter registration number. GWIIZ.... GWiz.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 09:37 | 62nd Post |
| You beat me to it JK! Never seen a humorous/apt aircraft registration before. I read it as 'Gee wiz'
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 11:38 | 63rd Post |
| They are Whizzard Helicopters of Welshpool.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 12:59 | 64th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:They are Whizzard Helicopters of Welshpool. That would explain it, very good.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu Sep 5th, 2013 13:11 | 65th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote: They are Whizzard Helicopters of Welshpool.I trust you got a good discount for Whistler Wizzard use!! :thumbsup:
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by amazing50: Sat Sep 7th, 2013 17:25 | 66th Post |
| Samyang now has 5 lenses for Nikon F mount that are designed for video. They have relocated the aperture to the side for easier viewing. The lenses are rated in T numbers instead of f numbers to denote the actual light transmission and there are movie standard gear teeth and no clicks on the aperture and focus rings. Samyang Cine Lens Kit for Nikon or Canon 85mm T1.5 - 35mm T1.5 - 24mm T1.5 - 14mm T3.1 - 8mm T3.8 These lenses are the same glass as their regular lenses so any reviews would still apply except for the 8mm which has a removable lens hood, which allows it to work on any FX Nikon. All are FX and function in still mode as well as movie. All are manual focus I have the 8mm T3.8 fish eye and am enjoying it. I'm satisfied with the quality of the pictures and the price with shipping and import duty from ebay was less than $500 US. These lenses are about $100 more than their non-movie versions. Planning on ordering the 85mm T1.5 next;~) Attachment: SAMYANG 8mm T3.8 - 1.jpg (Downloaded 14 times)
____________________ There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept ;~) Mike Grace |
| Posted by amazing50: Sun Sep 8th, 2013 13:24 | 67th Post |
| For thoes of you who are looking for higher quality T lenses for your Nikons, Zeiss has a new line of lenses from 35-135mm T1.9. There is a 6 to 9 month order time and each one is priced a bit above $43,000 US. http://www.abelcine.com/store/Arri-Zeiss-35mm-Master-Anamorphic-Prime/ Well at least there is a choice;~)
____________________ There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept ;~) Mike Grace |
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