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| d7100 help needed | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by blackfox: Fri Aug 16th, 2013 17:49 | 1st Post |
| i,m having problems with exposure compensation for birds in flight with the 7100 ,i use a 300mm f4 lens and usually with either a 1.4 or 1.7 tc ,i have used this lens combo very successfully with both the d7000 and d300s so its not the lens or combo ,with the two latter cameras when taking b.i.f it was usually just a case of dialling in a couple of positive bars and the exposure would come out virtually perfect . however myself and i might add several friends with the same rig set up cannot seem to get exposure compensation right .with most pics coming out either under or over exposed between us we have tried all metering modes ,matrix ,spot,partial etc nothing seems to work consistently ,i am starting to feel that its a design fault . for ground level birds /insects/butterflies i cannot fault the camera its perfection as soon as the sky is included i want to throw it into the nearest hedge .help please someone before i sell it in temper
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| Posted by Robert: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 01:10 | 2nd Post |
| Take control, use Manual. The sky is fairly consistent in brightness but less important than the bird, expose a stop or two over to capture the bird which should also be consistently lit from the ambient light. Take a test exposure or two and find the best exposure with the Histogram. My guess is that once you hit the correct setting that will be right for the entire session unless it's dawn or sunset. Check out the exposure settings for successful photographs in similar conditions, use them as a starting point. Use NEF, that gives you room for fine adjustment later. Sounds like you have found the Achilles heel of the D7100. Have fun!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Gilbert Sandberg: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 02:46 | 3rd Post |
| B, re: tried all metering modes Apparently you have not tried Manual exposure metering (the M of PSAM). Regards, Gilbert
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| Posted by blackfox: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 05:23 | 4th Post |
| i will follow this through ,and see if manual metering helps,the trouble with b.i.f especially raptors is they appear and are then gone so the time to experiment with different settings is quickly gone .as stated its never been a problem with previous nikons and i,m not a newbie on a learning curve having a more than good collection behind me . just this camera is not following the norm ,and it seems common with the D7100 from feedback from other users
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| Posted by Robert: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 06:49 | 5th Post |
| Hi Jeff, I realise you have taken several good pix of birds and you have a strong background in photography but you did ask. Given you seem to have tried most conventional routes my suggestion was the best I could come up with. There other suggestions available but they come with a very heavy price tag... Once you get used to Manual I would say it's probably better the any other mode, after all the ambient light doesn't change much and that is all that matters, an incident light meter or take an exposure from a grey board or even grass would get you into the ball park. A small object with a large bright background is a challenge for any exposure system. Have you tried looking through your best pix and checking out the exposures? I would bet there won't be a big difference between them except for extreme lighting conditions.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 07:05 | 6th Post |
blackfox wrote:i,m having problems with exposure compensation for birds in flight with the 7100 ,i use a 300mm f4 lens and usually with either a 1.4 or 1.7 tc ,i have used this lens combo very successfully with both the d7000 and d300s so its not the lens or combo ,with the two latter cameras when taking b.i.f it was usually just a case of dialling in a couple of positive bars and the exposure would come out virtually perfect . Has the D7100 got the low pass filter removed? Have you tried using a polarising filter?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by blackfox: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 08:10 | 7th Post |
| its got the anti-aliasing one removed eric ,sold my polarisers the other week due to lack of use (might have been a silly move) . rob its not a case of looking through old pics for settings as i have virtually none of b.i.f with this camera i like ..as i said its not just me the concensus is coming in not to use matrix though so thats one part settled . one thing puzzles me if your taking a manual reading of the sky it will surely meter for that ,yes/no . .you will then still need to dial in a positive exposure compensation for when a bird flies through that sky yes/no. it will STILL be guesswork on how much positive compensation to dial in yes/no so unless my thought process is entirely wrong its still pure guesswork and i'm back to square one 
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| Posted by Eric: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 09:37 | 8th Post |
blackfox wrote:its got the anti-aliasing one removed eric ,sold my polarisers the other week due to lack of use (might have been a silly move) . I suspect the manual suggestion was that you meter off a similarly lit foreground object and fix that exp for the bird. Of course if the bird isn't front lit, like your target object, it still will need exp comp. I can't believe with all your experience you are doing anything wrong. It must be the cameras response to high key lighting...that's why I question the filtration. I wonder if changing the cameras contrast or film simulation setting might yield better results? Coincidentally, I was recently shooting with the D7000 and my Fuji XE up high (3000m) above the snow line. The D7000 struggled to get exposure right with snowy mountain scenes. The Fuji exposures were perfect. So much so, I have already put on hold the idea of selling the Fuji system and will persevere with its ergonomic and tardiness issues and maybe buy the longer lens....so I don't need to take the D7000 in these situations. Not sure if that is just a coincidence or this lighting situation is the Achilles heal of the D7000 and D7100?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 09:41 | 9th Post |
| Jeff, what are the camera settings you would use normally (on another Nikon) and get good results ? For me I would use; Aperture Priority EV ccompensation +1.3 or +1.7 (shooting for detail in bird body against a brigt sky) AF is your preference but I tend to use central point or 51 points. Min shutter speed of 1/500 with AutoISO And shooting in RAW Dont know if this helps. Are you sure that there isn't some rogue thing like bracketing that is killing you. This happened on my D300 and drove me nuts on holiday until I could get home and read the manual.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 09:45 | 10th Post |
blackfox wrote:
Doesn't matter what camera you have used the exposure on a given day with that lens setup should be a good starting point.
Never said take meter reading of sky, You need an ambient light reading, either use a traditional incident light metre or take a reading off grass, your hand or maybe a grey board.
With an incident light reading, NO. With Manual exposure you don't need to add compensation, THAT is the point.
YES, but when you get the hang of it it will be far more controllable and predictable. Using TTL metering with a tiny object against a bright sky is no more than a lottery, prone to error, the odds are against you.
In my opinion you need to go back to basics. The selectivity of the metering system isn't intelligent/fast enough to cope with a tiny dark (unlit) object (bird) against a bright sky. The metre reading you need to expose the bird correctly will be very close to the exposure you need for somebody's face 6 feet away in the same direction as your subject. Try it...
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 09:51 | 11th Post |
Robert wrote:blackfox wrote: |
| Posted by blackfox: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 10:08 | 12th Post |
| jk i shoot in raw apeture priority am now using partial metering rather than matrix usually centre point focussing auto iso set to min 100 iso max 3200 iso with a minimum shutter speed of 1/1250th sec to cope with 500mm lens set up hand held . i have tried switching back to a non variable iso but that makes no difference . as i stated with previous nikons i have only had to compensate upwards by a couple of notches i.e under a full stop ,but it now seems that at least a full stop is needed or more .lack of suitable targets is the real problem at the moment .as raptors haven't yet moved back in any amount of quantity . all other settings are fine ,been through it all 3-4 times and as stated its not just me others coming up with the same results with similar lens set ups
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| Posted by blackfox: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 10:15 | 13th Post |
hear what you say rob ,guess i'll have to take the blow up doll with me out on the marshes . i'll tell the coppers it was your idea 
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| Posted by Robert: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 10:29 | 14th Post |
| have fun with the doll!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 10:59 | 15th Post |
Robert wrote:have fun with the doll! Thought he was trying to solve 'exposure' problems?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 11:40 | 16th Post |
blackfox wrote: jkSounds to me like there may be something not quite right in the camera or they have changed the way that the metering works in that model (unlikely I would have thought). Might be worthwhile having the camera checked. I know that is a pain but if you are a Nikon NPS member they usually turn these repairs around in less than a week.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by blackfox: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 12:08 | 17th Post |
| i think they have changed something in the metering jonathon ,i have several contacts who have them and two close friends have the same camera and have followed me with the same lens's as well .we are all getting the same results .so unless its a batch issue problem its something in the metering system
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| Posted by Eric: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 12:44 | 18th Post |
blackfox wrote:i think they have changed something in the metering jonathon ,i have several contacts who have them and two close friends have the same camera and have followed me with the same lens's as well .we are all getting the same results .so unless its a batch issue problem its something in the metering system Sounds like you have considered all the possible angles and the fact others have the same experience, leaves you with having to find a workaround or taking it up with Nikon. Have you tried a zoom lens? Wonder if the effect varies with % sky. Presumably the TC isn't contributing?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by blackfox: Sat Aug 17th, 2013 13:07 | 19th Post |
| early days yet eric ,tried both t.c's with no change ,not yet tried it with the bare 300mm ,i only have one other lens a wide angle ,as i travel light and the prime gives me all the variations i need .. as i said lack of target birds is not helping ,and depressing gray skies virtually since i bought the camera haven't helped either .i will have to try higher positive compensation 1.e a full stop or more till i come up with whats the right combo . the frustrating thing is at eye level ,birds at low level,macro /close up its fast and accurate to ,as soon as a large amount of sky comes into it it all goes out the window .i am presuming its the new sensor and lack of anti-aliasing thats changing things ,the only way to make sense of it is to say its performing more like a canon than a nikon metering wise just to put my own mind at rest i have just been back through exif data /historgrams on the two other cameras on b.i.f ,it seems that e.v ranged from 0 through 0.67 up to 1 full stop ,and seemed to have a fair bit of latitude in the actual raw files ,i think i,m starting to realise that theres not as much leeway in the 7100 it has to be virtually spot on or it shows up either as a exposure problem or noise .i will now try setting it at plus a full stop and see how that works once i can get some b.i.f that is .
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| Posted by jk: Sun Aug 18th, 2013 01:49 | 20th Post |
| May be something that needs raising up to Nikon for a flx via a firmware revision. The metering algorithms are very complex and take into account many different light situations. It sounds like there is a bug in the D7100 code. I can only recommend that you make a phone call to Nikon UK Tech Support. I have always found them very helpful but I have had NPS membership for many years and also I used to know the Nikon UK MD so maybe I was just lucky.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Aug 18th, 2013 06:18 | 21st Post |
| I currently have a slightly jaundiced view about tech help people. I've been having an irritating problem with some new software on a new laptop. To make matters worse the op system is new to me as well. So I haven't been able to identify which is causing the problem. I contacted the software tech support with what I thought was as clear and succinct description of the problem. The answer I got back was to another question.... I never asked!! Trying to get them OFF their mindset now is proving impossible. They think in straight lines. So before talking to Nikon make sure you can clearly identify the issue without TC, zoom lens, auto ISO...or whatever. In fact it might be worth doing a reboot of the camera and trying again.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sun Aug 18th, 2013 08:05 | 22nd Post |
Eric wrote: I currently have a slightly jaundiced view about tech help people.Windows8 ????
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by blackfox: Sun Aug 18th, 2013 08:14 | 23rd Post |
| not worth arguing about lads ,i will sort it one way or another ,at the moment the camera is good in 90% of its uses ,this seems to me like user error on my part .once i have used it a bit more hopefully it will fall into place. i.e one from the other day 300mm f4 lens plus 1.7tc = 500mm effective F/L hand held .so cant fault it on this .and worst way i still have the canon 1Dmkii for b.i.f :thumbsup:  united colours of summer by blackfox wildlife & nature imaging, on Flickr
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| Posted by Eric: Sun Aug 18th, 2013 08:15 | 24th Post |
jk wrote: Eric wrote:Yes...some strange default settings. eg when you hit the delete key...it deletes without a yes/no warning. You have to go and switch ON this safeguard.I currently have a slightly jaundiced view about tech help people.Windows8 ???? Apparently 8.1 is imminent! My issue was with a video editing program. I later deduced and solved the problem. But for a while I was struggling to establish if it was hardware, OS or software related. So I can understand Jeff frustration. It would be interesting to hear how the D800 and especially the D800E perform contrajour. Cant help thinking the Lowpass fiter removal and the extra pixels are going to have a knock on effect somewhere.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by blackfox: Tue Aug 20th, 2013 12:03 | 25th Post |
| right i can put this one to bed now ,it seems that using partial metering is the way to go with this camera (i've always used matrix before) and having luckily managed a hours session with some buzzards against grey skies blue skies and backlit to .it seems that WITH MY LENS SET UP (put that in as a provisio) you need for b.i.f or backlit birds at least 1.67 positive exp compensation ,i think in fact that 2 full stops would be better .what ever it does now appear that the new sensor and workings etc work this way and a huge sigh of relief its not the camera thats playing up .. as i said before this camera just does not meter like previous nikons ,picture below taken at +1.67 but i think 2 full stops would be better ,hard to tell till you get them on computer .never ever had to go this high before ,although it may change in winter light ??  formel by blackfox wildlife & nature imaging, on Flickr the photo above is taken at extreme range and is not posted for focus or other points just to show exposure comp working lol
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| Posted by jk: Tue Aug 20th, 2013 12:12 | 26th Post |
| Well done Jeff. Thanks for the information on how you have managed to get it to work. That makes life easier for others.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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