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| The Future has ArrivedNikon need to get their Act Together....Fast !! | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by novicius: Fri Jul 24th, 2020 17:59 | 1st Post |
| Z- camera`s are Fabulous camera`s , or so I have been told...but where are their Lenses ?? The Commotion is caused by the Decision made by Associated Press,....This is More Significant then would appear on first glance ...Link to Interview of AP's Director of Photography, J. David Ake by DPReview : https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/2999935759/interview-we-talk-to-ap-director-of-photography-about-switch-to-sony?fbclid=IwAR2DkzysypP1U6cnGkLlcM8mlg-7rQWiz5cV4kEMlS3JITHNoaPffqJ6d-I Honestly, Nikon really needs to step-up , or they`ll be facing what happened to Germany`s photo-industry...or am I wrong , seeing doom while it`s all " glitter & gold " ...?
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by GeoffR: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 04:41 | 2nd Post |
| I agree that Nikon need to get moving on lenses for the Z mount I am also aware that designing and building lenses isn't a quick process. I think the D780 was an unnecessary side track at a time when development effort should have been focused on lenses but I suspect it will turn out to have been a low cost upgrade compared to designing a new lens. Sony are also an interesting company, they very rapidly ditch product lines that don't make money, the Vaio computer line for instance. If the camera market should turn the wrong way I can see them pulling out just as quickly. For the moment they are in a good position but AP can switch brands when ever the like.
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| Posted by jk: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 05:19 | 3rd Post |
| I agree with the premise that Nikon need to get their act together but the question is also about how. Traditionally Nikon have produced solid well engineered products with long life cycles. That paradigm does not seem to work in the current fast changing technology environment with throw-away products. Nikon need a strategy for the long term but need to be more flexible in their management culture than they have been in the past 20-30 years. They need to be adaptive to the changing marketplace. The future. We need to think long term about reuse and repair to get away from the throw away mentality. This means more costly products with upgradeable components. The concept is not new but has endured see RED video cameras. A bit like a Nikon F2 camera, buy it with simple pentaprism, high point pentaprism, waistlevel finder, microscope finder, TTL head, better TTL head or a superlative TTL head. Then add a motordrive or fast motordrive. Then add a simple databack, or a complex databack, a GPS interface, etc..... The list can and does become almost endless. All based around a plug on accessory set on a simple camera box. In the digital world we can exploit the technology by following this design concept. A basic sensor that fits on a camera box with mirror or mirrorless technology, with different resolution sensor upgrade options, different viewfinder options, e.g. optical as well as digital electronic viewfinders. The lens issue. I dont really understand the current thought process around the old F range versus the new S line lenses. Yes the bigger throat gives easier and better design options for improved fast aperture lens designs and allows for better optical design for better resolution. But there need to be duplication or complete redundancy of the lens range. We need to address this elephant, Is the F range of lenses dead or not. Personally I like the new S line design as they are all very similar but they are a challenge as it is impossible to use them on an F series camera, however the F lenses can bd used on Z range cameras with the FTZ adapter. Then the FTZ adapter...... it needs to be followed up with an FTZ v2 adapter that allows the older screwdriver focus lenses to be used. Some of the old AFD lenses are exceptional and still work very well. I dont care if the adapter costs £â‚¬$¥1000, JFDI Nikon! Nikon currently sell TC (teleconverters) at gross prices, these need to be rationalised and cost reduced. The camera range needs to be simplified and reduced but this is possible by adopting the modular build concepts mentioned above. The FX and DX camera complexity can be also addressed in the came way. The end concept provides the customer with a huge range of choice and personal customisation options which dont drive the need for multiple cameras but multiple add ons! All these add ons are cheaper than a camera but ultimately will lead to higher value sales. If I want a 25MP camera resolution then I buy the 25MP sensor add on. If needs change then I purchase the 45MP sensor or the 60MP one!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 05:28 | 4th Post |
| In the same vein I have recently used a borrowed Go-Pro 7 to video some of our outdoor activities, I am astounded by the inbuilt image stabilisation. It's amazing, I have followed my son, who was driving for the very first time, on an old dumper. I was walking quickly over very rough ground trying to keep up, just holding the little Go-Pro in my hand at outstretched arms length but the video was superb, smooth and shake free. Compared with video I made with the iPhone it's brilliant, the iPhone video is close to unwatchable, drastically shaky and very poor quality. Some technological advances are amazing.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 06:31 | 5th Post |
| The new Fuji XT4 has IBIS which gives very good video stabilisation. I have the Fuji XH1 which is great as its IBIS works well for stills, the Z7 has great IBIS as well but it can still be improved on many fronts.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by GeoffR: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 06:45 | 6th Post |
| I'm not sure that the modular, upgradeable camera is quite as easy as your posts appears to suggest but that isn't to say that it can't be done. Changing the sensor may be a workshop/lab task due to the alignment required. The life of a camera may still be limited as faster processing demands changes to architecture that the original "body" cannot accommodate; meaning that the nice new 75MP sensor cannot be used with the body you bought with the 24MP sensor package and the 60MP sensor has been discontinued. Nice idea but I'm not sure that any manufacturer would agree to be constrained by it. Clearly there is a market for a pro spec camera with a high pixel count (D850) but a little imagination could have made it available with or without a grip in the same way as the F4/F4s. The current camera range is, I agree far too complex. The Nikon UK web site shows that there are currently 11 camera bodies with the F mount. The FX range has the D5 and D6 occupying the same slot, the D750 and D780 likewise, the D610 is close to the DF leaving the D850 on its own. The DX range has the D3500 and D5600 that look very similar on paper the D7500 and D500 are also very similar. It is not hard to see where models could be discontinued unless the intention is to have a camera at every price point, even if some of them are little different from the model at the next/previous point. The FTZ adaptor should have been strangled at birth! I agree Nikon needs an FTZ 2 adaptor that does away with the tripod socket and incorporates a focus motor for AF and AF-D lenses, even if the results are considered below par with some lenses, because there are specialist optics that have no AF-S equivalents. The price structure of the Teleconverter range is senseless, a TC20E III cost more than some lenses (more than twice as much as the AF-S 50mm f1.4G) and the others are little cheaper. It seems to me that there is a lack of imagination and vision, not just at Nikon but at Pentax and possibly Olympus as well. It needs younger people to imagine where the traditional interchangeable lens camera fits into the phone/camera landscape. Of course Nikon could listen to its customers and include features, such as control grips, that customers want rather than lose sales because they aren't there. One need only look back to the D2 to D3 shift to see that management changes have a dramatic effect. One senior management team didn't see the need for a full frame camera, change the team and the D3 emerges as a real winner for the company.
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| Posted by jk: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 07:10 | 7th Post |
| Geoff dont forget that on a Hasselblad/Mamiya/PhaseOne you can switch backs which is the same concept of modular components. Re: "Clearly there is a market for a pro spec camera with a high pixel count (D850) but a little imagination could have made it available with or without a grip in the same way as the F4/F4s." I definitely agree with this point. In an earlier post you mentioned the lack of a battery grip for the Z7 and Z6. I cannot believe that Nikon were so stupid or short sighted as to not include the contact points at least even if they hadnt designed the end product. But this is a major loss I think as it means that the rumoured Z7s and Z6S which is said to have two card slots needs to address this as well. I dont often need the extra battery but sometimes it is essential and I dont want to have to carry the battery insert ( EP-5B https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/New/nikon-ep-5b-power-connector_23045.html ) and a big V-battery plate so I can have long durability. In fact I built something like this for myself. https://www.adorama.com/ipmvnk14.html
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 09:14 | 8th Post |
GeoffR wrote:I'm not sure that the modular, upgradeable camera is quite as easy as your posts appears to suggest but that isn't to say that it can't be done. Changing the sensor may be a workshop/lab task due to the alignment required. The life of a camera may still be limited as faster processing demands changes to architecture that the original "body" cannot accommodate; meaning that the nice new 75MP sensor cannot be used with the body you bought with the 24MP sensor package and the 60MP sensor has been discontinued. Nice idea but I'm not sure that any manufacturer would agree to be constrained by it. Clearly there is a market for a pro spec camera with a high pixel count (D850) but a little imagination could have made it available with or without a grip in the same way as the F4/F4s.Couldn't agree more.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 09:31 | 9th Post |
I suspect that in not too many years, press photographers will ALL just shoot video. After all, it's only one step beyond motor drives.  Sony currently have the best execution of videoing with a still camera. Not surprising given their history. The camera however doesn't feel as nice in the hand as a Nikon and some of its menus access badly. I am not sure Nikon can pull another D3 out their hat. That was a matter of trumping the competitions best efforts. Now it's about completely changing direction for a new photography landscape. Going mirrorless was just another 'me too'....and badly flawed by the obstacle to using current glass. Not sure I would like to be trying to steer Nikon (nor Marks and Spencer's 😆) through the new retail and commercial world. But it must help if your crystal ball is well polished. I liken camera development to gift wrapping an octopus. Every time you think you got it right ...you find a tentacle has been left out. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 10:24 | 10th Post |
Eric wrote:I suspect that in not too many years, press photographers will ALL just shoot video. After all, it's only one step beyond motor drives.Got to agree with all this. Looking forward to seeing that wrapped octopus.  Click here to comment on this image. I think the next D3-like product from Nikon will need to be from somebody with real vision and understanding of the emerging technology. The move to the new S line of lenses is for me a bad move by Nikon as I have so much legacy glass that I dont want to release any time soon. I am still waiting for a clever Chinese person to make an FTZ mk2 with the AF screwdriver built in. For me the addition of features that I dont use is no big deal, e.g. I dont use video as I dont 'do' video but that doesnt mean that I wont use it occasionally. I think that the removal of the mechanical shutter and adoption of an electronic shutter where the sensor output is read out to the storage card/device. I dont know how this would work for long exposures but I am sure that it is technically possible.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by GeoffR: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 10:56 | 11th Post |
jk wrote:Geoff don't forget that on a Hasselblad/Mamiya/PhaseOne you can switch backs which is the same concept of modular components.You are right of course but the cost of these cameras is significantly more than that of a, current, Nikon making the extra cost of machining an accurate mounting less of a significant part of the cost. On a small sensor, and 24mm x 36mm was regarded as small for a long time, the additional cost may push the price of the camera beyond that acceptable to the target market. It is more a matter of cost than engineering. I remember the Datum Flux valve, that didn't require a compass swing after being replaced, it was revolutionary at the time. Accurate manufacture of the mountings on both sides and correct alignment of the internals meant that everything was interchangeable. The same would be required of a sensor module but I think the acceptable degree of misalignment would be much smaller. Within 15 years we didn't even use flux valves, an aircraft "magnetic" compass relies on Inertial/GPS position and Magnetic variation tables. What that would mean in camera terms I don't know. The point however is that moving the skilled job of alignment from maintenance to manufacture reduced down time and costs. What an interchangeable sensor requires is almost exactly the same but, flux valves weren't actually changed very often and the saving in maintenance probably didn't equate to the increased cost of the part. Likewise if the sensor isn't likely to be changed very often is the increased manufacturing cost offset by a reduced upgrade (maintenance) cost? I suppose that if a manufacturer were to commit to keeping the parts compatible for, say, 20 years it might be feasible but look what difficulties Nikon had with the F mount. Now, 60 years on, the mechanical bayonet is unchanged but almost everything around it is different. The electronics of a digital camera change much faster and I wonder how practical it would be to keep the central core unchanged for even 10 years. Back to aviation, in flight entertainment systems don't advance as fast as passengers would like, most in-seat screens are smaller and lower resolution than an iPad Mini 4 and even the system fitted last month is technically obsolete. The passenger is already carrying a better system than the airline can provide, but not the content. In camera terms; if the central core was using Expeed 6 processors at design then by the time it was ready the Expeed 7 would be in production and within two years of launch the central core would already be two generations behind (depending which module hosts the processing). I'd like the idea to work because I like the thought of keeping the comfortable hardware of the shell and upgrading the inside to keep pace with advancing technology.
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| Posted by jk: Sat Jul 25th, 2020 11:42 | 12th Post |
| OK. I'll settle for the FTZ mk2 without the tripod mount and with the screwdriver workings for my AF lenses. 
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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