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Robert
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Not sure exactly which cameras are compatible but D4, D5 and D850, maybe D800/810? |
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jk
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Normally with Nikon the versions of the battery are intra-model compatible but the later versions have additional power management features and sometimes extra power. |
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Squarerigger
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I have EN-EL15 and 15a. Did I miss something or did they just jump over 16's and 17's? Never-the-less, I am sure they will be very reasonably priced  |
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GeoffR
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The battery number relates to its capacity, shape and dimensions. The EN-EL4 is used in the D2 and D3. The EN-EL18 is a very similar shape to the EN-EL4 but the contacts are on the opposite side, it is also a lower voltage. The EN-EL16 and the EN-EL17 have not yet been produced. Of course the price will be reasonable, as long as someone else is paying! Expect something well over $200 |
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novicius
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GeoffR wrote:The battery number relates to its capacity, shape and dimensions. The EN-EL4 is used in the D2 and D3. The EN-EL18 is a very similar shape to the EN-EL4 but the contacts are on the opposite side, it is also a lower voltage. 200 pounds for a rechargeable cell ??? Those for a big D cost well over a Hundred..but 200 quid..there are camera`s for less than that. |
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Robert
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They are out there... With varying degrees of distress. 😥 https://www.cliftoncameras.co.uk/Nikon-ENEL18C-Battery https://www.photospecialist.co.uk/nikon-en-el18c-accu  https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00G588T6I/ref=psdc_1330675031_t2_B00IQABXZW |
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novicius
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I have heard Good things about PATONA ,...and sounds like a good deal too. Still wanna have a go at DIY refurb for my D3S and X camera`s.. But I`ll wait until they`re at 4 as I wanna know how lang they will hold up. |
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GeoffR
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I have a policy when buying third party batteries from Amazon, they need 5 star reviews and plenty of them. Patona's EN-EL18s have 5 stars but only two reviews. The one I bought was an Ex Pro which I gave 4 stars because the battery door is slightly loose. I think the price for a Genuine Nikon battery is unacceptable, but I would like another one, may be next time I am in B&H. As to "There are cameras for less than that" Indeed there are cameras smaller than an MH22/MH26 and my Nikon 1 isn't much bigger than an EN-EL4/18. |
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Robert
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Think we can conclude most of the really cheap batteries are probably of Chinese origin, the two I have from German supplier are still going strong, the one I ordered on Tuesday arrived yesterday (Wednesday) in a plain white van, 24Hr free delivery.  I charged it on arrival and it registers 100%, new battery on the D3 battery monitor. One of the two original D200 Batteries I bought in August 2007 failed yesterday, it had been in my D200IR camera for a few weeks, I put it on charge but it was rejected by the charger. I won't attempt to revive it, although I may open it to see what it contains... If I do open it I will share my experience and pictures to save others having to do it! That's 11 years, almost to the day since I bought that first D200 camera to replace the D1. It's the first D200 battery to fail on me. |
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jk
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2007-2018=11 years. Outside the normal lifetime of a Lion battery but not unheard of. I have had a few dead batteries from the EN-EL3 range (D300, D200, D90, D70,etc) but they were cheap clones 3 of 12 in my set. Also some EN-EL4 batteries (D3, D3S, D700 grip), two of 8 in my set. |
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novicius
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Nice one Robert... Tripped over this site about Charging : http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_charge_when_to_charge_table Mentions that when Fuel-gauge becomes " erratic "Li-ion`s do need to Discharg/Refresh every 1- 3 month . When recharging I always press the Refresh button on the MH-22 , so far so good ,but I`m beginning to have doubts now. |
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Robert
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Well to be honest, I am probably worlds worst organised charger. If I decide to go out on an expedition it's usually totally unplanned drop of a hat and I'm off. So I end up having a rush round to bung all the batteries on charge, check the cards, chuck the lot in the back of the car and away! I have an inverter, which I haven't used for several years, 300 Watts, nicely enough for battery chargers. So I am going to wire it into the car soon, maybe even tomorrow. I am hoping to get back up to Skye in a week or so, darkest moon, but I don't think there are going to be any cloudless skies. So, do I put the batteries on charge now, or wait a while... Thinks I will wait a while. |
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GeoffR
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novicius wrote: Nice one Robert...Interesting but wrong! Deep discharge is damaging to Li-ion batteries, doing one every few months will reduce the life of the battery. Pressing that Cal button on the MH22 results in a deep discharge, don't press Cal unless the Cal light illuminates. Before relying on internet information, READ THE MANUAL for the device, the manufacturer really does know how best to use its products. |
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novicius
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Geoff , Thank You, I did not know that the Cal. button would let me know , I thought it only lights up when I pressed it , Your Advice is deeply Appreciated  |
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jk
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Robert wrote:Well to be honest, I am probably worlds worst organised charger. If I decide to go out on an expedition it's usually totally unplanned drop of a hat and I'm off. Inverter should work off the cigarette lighter especially as it is only 300W. Some camera battery chargers have 12v input as well but they charge very slowly. |
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jk
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GeoffR wrote:novicius wrote:Nice one Robert...Interesting but wrong! Deep discharge is damaging to Li-ion batteries, doing one every few months will reduce the life of the battery. Pressing that Cal button on the MH22 results in a deep discharge, don't press Cal unless the Cal light illuminates. Exactly.  I think I have only ever used the CAL button on my old D1 batteries before I converted them to Lions. |
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novicius
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Robert wrote:
Robert , While re-reading the D3X manual I came across this ( exerpt D3X manual page 22 ) I suphose this counts for all D3 series. • Do not use with travel converters or adapters designed to convert from one voltage to another or with DC-to-AC inverters. Failure to observe this precaution could damage the product or cause overheating or fire. This is all GeoffR`s fault, after the " Stern Look " he gave me about checking the camera manual |
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Robert
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Mmmm interesting, but makes sense... I guess by 'Travel Converters' they mean voltage adjusting converters rather than plug pin adaptors. As far as I know all Nikon chargers are multi voltage self adjusting, you can use them at any voltage from 100V to 240V and at 50 or 60 Hz, you don't NEED an adaptor for the voltage and if you do use one it may confuse the charger because it may loose it's reference voltage and end up either under or over charging the battery My MH-22 is dual voltage and so are my MH-21, MH-18a and MH-24 chargers. They are all self adjusting for the AC input. Which will be why the manual says, effectively, don't double adjust. Also it's possible the 'travel converter' is just a resistor which will only give the correct voltage for a given sample load, all other loads will be wrong voltage. |
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GeoffR
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Robert wrote: Mmmm interesting, but makes sense...A clear case of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". All current Nikon chargers are multi voltage. They accept input voltages between 100V and 240V at frequencies of 50Hz or 60Hz. This range covers just about every country on earth. Voltage converters are simply transformers and shouldn't make any difference but they are completely unnecessary, why would you bother? Inverters are a different matter, the output from a cheap inverter, such as might be used in a car, isn't a very accurate sine wave and may be far from "clean". Such a "dirty" output will cause the charger to get hot and may result in internal damage. Reference voltage? Where did that come from I wonder? Chargers use voltage regulators and don't really care what the input voltage might be the regulator manages the output without reference to the input. This is after all why one uses a regulator in the first place. The chargers don't "self adjust" they are designed to produce the required output irrespective of the input, it could be 120V, 150V, 200V or anywhere in between. The device is actually a switched mode power supply and will supply the rated output even if the input changes while in use. You might also note that it says "No user serviceable parts inside". One of my MH22s had a problem which proved to be very "user serviceable" the lug to which the switch panel was attached had broken. Some epoxy putty soon restored normal operation. Generally however, leave the inside well alone. |
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novicius
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Inverters are a different matter, the output from a cheap inverter, such as might be used in a car, isn't a very accurate sine wave and may be far from "clean". Such a "dirty" output will cause the charger to get hot and may result in internal damage. Actually, seldom as in Never, is the sine-wave from any wallsocket " clean". Any charger could Not care two hoots about what that sine-wave looks like, as long as it is a Sine-wave...AUDIO Amplifiers would care, as the output will result in a " Gritty " sound. I could see Two problems with a Not-well constructed DC -AC converter. 1) That it delivers a wave approaching a Square-wave , which is not very likely ,but possible. 2) That the DC-AC converter is " leaking" Direct Current ( Highly Likely !! ) which Will cause Problems for Any Alternating Current appliance. To recap...AC are Pulses...DC is a steady flow , so DC into an AC appliance will Overheat said appliance , causing a Melt down, in Extreme circumstances even cause Fire...Hence Nikon`s Warning !! A Well constructed DC-AC converter is Very Expensive,as in well over a Thousand Quid . |
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GeoffR
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novicius wrote: Inverters are a different matter, the output from a cheap inverter, such as might be used in a car, isn't a very accurate sine wave and may be far from "clean". Such a "dirty" output will cause the charger to get hot and may result in internal damage.Norvicius, I am a qualified avionic engineer, I do know the difference between AC and DC as well as the means of converting one to the other. Converting DC to AC often starts with a square wave in low cost devices. The mains in most Western countries may not be very clean but it is markedly better than that from a cheap inverter. Now, if I were Nikon I would be advising against the use of converters and the like because I don't want to accept responsibility for fixing my expensive charger when it is used with one. Chargers do actually run hotter with a poor waveform, I have experienced it with a computer PSU run from an inverter. Run from a mains supply it was markedly cooler. DC into an AC device where the first component is a transformer will result in a current flow, depending on the DC voltage that may or may not result in the destruction of the primary winding. Actually delivering DC to an AC device takes some doing but a DC offset on an AC wave form isn't uncommon and may result in magnetic saturation of the core, with attendant problems. However, a Nikon MH22 or MH26 does not contain a transformer, I know I have opened one up to fix a damaged internal lug. A switched mode power supply can be designed to run on a DC input. Now DC offset is not an uncommon occurrence so most appliances can happily accommodate a degree of offset without problems but too much is damaging. What level of DC is acceptable from a cheap inverter? I have no idea but if it is above the level Nikon designed their chargers to accept, it will be a problem. So, both poor waveform and DC offset can damage chargers, given that cheap inverters are unregulated the extent of either, or both, could easily be outside the design parameters of a Nikon charger. If you were Nikon, would you risk it? |
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novicius
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GeoffR , I do realize that you know what you are talking about,and that was actually my point , see 1) , that I pondered on AC and DC was to recap so as to avoid confusion to those who are not versed in the matter. Tiny amounts of DC into AC and/or somewhat polluted Sine-wave can be Negligible , yet, as you Rightly pointed out , Too Much could end up in Disaster . My pointing out that a real good DC/AC converter is a costly affair was meant as a heads-up to Robert to re-consider the project of conneting that Converter to power-up his Cherished and Costly charger/batteries. My way of Not trying to be a " know it all " , just pointing out something. |
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Robert
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Thank you novicius, it had actually been lost on me! I completely missed your point... I think I have yet another incredibly boring day ahead of me tomorrow, I am recuperating from an excessively active weekend... If I get the urge, I will fire up my DC-AC inverter and my Oscilloscope and have some fun looking at the wave output from the inverter under various loads. |
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jk
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Go to it Robert. Real evidence is better than theoretical banter! |
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Robert
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I don't often wheel it out but I love using the 'scope. My old one had to be left behind when I moved out of my house into a tiny flat. I also had to abandon my sewing machine, a freshly serviced Singer.  I was very lucky to find another, also a Techtronic, but a tenth of the size of my original! I just wish it had four channels rather than two. |
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GeoffR
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novicius wrote: GeoffR , I do realize that you know what you are talking about,and that was actually my point , see 1) , that I pondered on AC and DC was to recap so as to avoid confusion to those who are not versed in the matter.OK, that is fair enough. If Robert wants to run a charger from an inverter in his car he could do worse than buy a clone charger (MH21) as they are much cheaper than a genuine Nikon version, this one, costs £15. there is an obvious risk in that the charger may not be as well built as the original but charging an elderly EN-EL4 using a cheap clone with an inverter is a small financial risk, especially if he carries a wide mouth flask of cold water as a precaution against battery overheating. If it works he has a solution, if not he has lost an old battery and £15. Some time back I had a gentleman, on another site, trying to convince me that he knew, because he was a heating and ventilation engineer, that aircraft do not have recirculation fans. He went very quiet when I pointed out that I had type ratings on several aircraft and they most certainly do have recirculation fans. Sometimes it is necessary to explain the source of ones views. |
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Robert
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GeoffR wrote:If Robert wants to run a charger from an inverter in his car he could do worse than buy a clone charger (MH21) as they are much cheaper than a genuine Nikon version, this one, costs £15. I have just such a charger! Zero cost/risk... Exciting things have cropped up this morning so I probably won't have time to wire in the inverter today. A small parcel from eBay with a little electric meter in it. I am trying to trace the hole in my electric consumption. About 55% of my entire home electric consumption is consumed by my main computer and it's ancillaries. I feel that is disproportionate and not really acceptable. I am on a quest to identify the culprit and reduce the consumption to more acceptable levels. As for online reputation, in my experience it comes with time. One reads posts and assesses the content, if it's well put together and backed up with conversation over time a good reputation can be built. I always start by giving someone I don't know the benefit of any doubt and go from there, some dig holes for themselves, others rise in my esteem to dizzy heights. I never make claims to be an 'expert' in any field' I spent 55 years in the construction trade, covering most disciplines from digger driving to site management. Along the way I have learnt many practical skills including electrics, engineering and welding, even a little flying!!! Every day I try to learn more and more about more and more, rather than my definition of an expert which is someone who learns more and more about less and less! LOL Many principles and techniques are transferrable between disciplines, once learnt they are invaluable. |
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Eric
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I am on a quest to identify the culprit and reduce the consumption to more acceptable levels. Use the iPad. |
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Robert
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Way too tedious. I have tried, end up feeling like folding it over my knee... Entering URL's is a total pain, creating or editing posts on here is a right palaver, searching google is frustrating when the auto self correcting spellcheck/replacement *thinks* it knows better when I want to put a name in the search box. Then the stupidity of not allowing page swipe. The iPad, the home of swiping - doesn't allow my most used swipe, that of swiping from one page to another in the web browser, crazy. Apart from that I used to think it might have some benefits, I was wong. |
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jk
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Robert wrote:
What is disproportionate? Computer or non-computer use? Hot water tank, cooker. Big consumption. |
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GeoffR
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Robert wrote: I am trying to trace the hole in my electric consumption. About 55% of my entire home electric consumption is consumed by my main computer and it's ancillaries. I feel that is disproportionate and not really acceptable. I am on a quest to identify the culprit and reduce the consumption to more acceptable levels.Unless you have a piece of equipment that must be kept running, knock the power off at the distribution unit (consumer unit, fuse box or whatever you want to call it) then observe the electricity meter. If there is still a load get on to the supplier and find out who, or what, else is connected to your meter. |
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Robert
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Have re-wired entire house myself, it was very dodgy... My Landlord is an electrician and signed it off for me, all is well with the wiring. Previously there were several earth leakage issues. I have separate meters for my computers and shed. I have just created a portable Watt hour meter to test individual items. We are having great fun going round testing the individual items of equipment to see what range of consumption they have. My 'office' has a dedicated supply from the circuit board and I have a meter on that. I take weekly meter readings of the suppliers meter and my own sub circuit meters. I only became acutely aware of the computers apparent thirst after my last(summer) bill, which has raised my concern and led to my investigation. The Mac Pro 5.1 seems to consume between 200 and 300 Watts. The 28" LED screen 22-25 Watts and my 25"LCD Samsung screen about 45-50 Watts That alone is going on for 350-400 Watts. The Mac Pro consumes ~1 Watt in sleep mode. I also have an ageing UPS, I am wondering if that is becoming inefficient and wasting power. It must be at least ten years old. It's an APC 1500 I bought new because I was suffering with brown outs at my last place. By comparison my G5 21" iMac is consuming between 95 and 130 Watts depending on idle or working, 4.7 asleep. Over the last three weeks my main computer consumed 26, 24 and 30 kWh respectively. This is an Excel graph of my allocated usage this year in kWh. The computer proportion up to week 25 is estimated from the average since week 25 to last week. Higher usage correlates with school holidays... I do have a TV which the boys like to watch but is only used by them. That will account for some of the unallocated usage. I am considering reviving one of my Mac mini's which have fallen into disuse since the Mac Pro came along. Use the Mac mini for the casual use, internet etc and keep the Mac Pro exclusively for image and video processing. I don't rule out a newer iMac perhaps next year for the casual use and internet... Attachment: Screen Shot 2018-08-08 at 17.06.11.jpg (Downloaded 15 times) |
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jk
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Both my two MacPro units use a lot more electricity than the MacMini Server. My MacMini 2012 i7 quad server uses significantly less electricity than my 8core MacPro 3.0 GHz. This s the reason why I have moved to MacMinis. However the latest MacMinis since 2012 have been 'deliberately' crippled so they should compete with the iMac and MacPro. My next purchase will be a replacement for my Macbook Air i7. Macbook Pro i7 2017, probably 15" screen as it is slightly higher resolution. |
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jk
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In my opinion an iMac is a wasteful configuration as the screen outlasts a machine if you buy a top quality Dell or Eizo screen. |
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GeoffR
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I rarely use my iMac unless I want the bigger screen. I spend most of my time using a 2011 MacBook Pro 15" I7. |
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novicius
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I Hope You`ll get it Sorted soon Robert , Let us know how it`s going. |
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novicius
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Robert, have you found the cause of that exessive energy consumption ? |
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Robert
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Thank you Novicus for reminding me, especially at the end of the year. I have started a new thread, this is way off topic and (perhaps?) merits a thread of it's own. Link to new thread: http://nikondslr.uk/view_topic.php?id=1627&forum_id=6 |
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| A small amount of member data is captured and held in an attempt to reduce spammers and to manage users. This site also uses cookies to ensure ease of use. In order to comply with new DPR regulations you are required to agree/disagree with this process. If you do not agree then please email the Admins using info@nikondsl.uk Thank you. |