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| Posted by Squarerigger: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 10:09 | 1st Post |
| I am in the process of purchasing a new iMac to replace my current iMac which is now 7 years old. I also have been looking at adding Photoshop Elements 11 when this happens. When I looked up the photoshop program on Apple store, it comes as a DVD. Well, the new iMac has dropped the DVD from the machine.  Seems rather short sighted.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 10:23 | 2nd Post |
Squarerigger wrote: I am in the process of purchasing a new iMac to replace my current iMac which is now 7 years old. I also have been looking at adding Photoshop Elements 11 when this happens. I fear too many current developers have ther heads in the icloud. Wonder if this might help.... http://nikondslr.uk/view_topic.php?id=463&forum_id=7 CS2 has all of the underlying features and capabilities of later versions...just less of the potted methods. if it can be updated that might be another route.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 10:44 | 3rd Post |
| Thanks Eric, I find it funny/sad that when you look up the iMac in the Apple store and you look at the list of possible upgrades, they list a DVD player you cable onto the desktop via USB. How's that for state of the art electronics. Take the damn DVD out of the machine and make me buy one that takes up more space on the desk. I thought computers and all this new tech stuff was supposed to make my life easier. I don't carry my cell phone anymore. If I leave the house I throw it in the glove box in the car and when I return home, I put it on the charger at home. I turn it on once or twice a day to check for any messages. Sometimes I miss a few days  . Sorry, had a bit of a rant there - feel much better - now where the hell did I leave that cell phone thing.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 10:44 | 4th Post |
| Apple says that if you want a CD/DVD/BluRay reader/writer then you can buy and attach one via USB or Firewire. This reduces the cost of the computer and also the optical reader/writer is a little used item especially in an iclouded world. Here in Spain there are few clouds, a fast internet connection is 4MB/s and out of town it is 1MB/s so we have no iClouds that I can see.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 11:05 | 5th Post |
Squarerigger wrote: Thanks Eric, I find it funny/sad that when you look up the iMac in the Apple store and you look at the list of possible upgrades, they list a DVD player you cable onto the desktop via USB. How's that for state of the art electronics. Take the damn DVD out of the machine and make me buy one that takes up more space on the desk.Gary, Apple have been dropping the optical drives from all their new computer introductions since the Mac Book Air launched. I haven't missed it. The MBA DVD drive is Wi-Fi as far as I know, it's only £60 and can be shared between a number of computers if need be. When I got Lightroom I downloaded it from the adobe site as a demo which is fully functional for 30 days, I later added a key and that revived it after the 30 days expired. I did the same when I got the Adobe CS5 suit of Photoshop, In Design, Illustrator and Acrobat Pro, I simply downloaded them and used them in 30 day demo mode to start with while I decided if I really wanted them. When the 30 days expired then I got the keys from Adobe and that revived them and allowed me to authorise them with Adobe. I haven't installed software from a CD or DVD for years. Elements will be available from the Mac App Store (MAS) and will be a painless automatic installation with updates via the MAS Updates mechanism.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 13:51 | 6th Post |
| Thanks Robert, it's good to have an Apple mole so to speak.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 13:56 | 7th Post |
| Gary if you get the new iMac you will find that if it is latest spec or 2013 built then it will be all home grown. That is all built in USA. Seems like Apple is moving work back to USA from China. Is the tide turning?
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 14:03 | 8th Post |
jk wrote:Gary if you get the new iMac you will find that if it is latest spec or 2013 built then it will be all home grown. That is all built in USA. Seems like Apple is moving work back to USA from China. That is great. I wish we would stop moving manufacturing off to other countries. Makes the lack of a DVD more digestible. 
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by richw: Mon Jan 7th, 2013 20:47 | 9th Post |
| If you have fast internet DVD in a computer is waste now, I haven't used the one in my Macbook Pro for well over a year.
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| Posted by blackfox: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 02:06 | 10th Post |
| gary you do not need the dvd ,if you look on the APPS store on your i-mac you can buy elements on there .this is the way they are going these days ,usually it works out cheaper for you to .unfortunate if you have already bought a hard copy though :baffled:
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| Posted by Bob Bowen: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 05:55 | 11th Post |
| No one has mentioned the OSX remote disc option which lets one share a dvd drive on another computer (even with Windows) providing the software is compatible. I use the facility a lot from for my MM server to my laptop if I need to write\read a disc.
____________________ Bob Bowen |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 06:49 | 12th Post |
| Good point Bob, although generally the need for optical disks is diminishing, occasionally it can be handy to read one, and that method works well enough. There was a hue and cry when Apple dropped the floppy drive from it's range of computers, now they really are obsolete as are tapes. I still have two tape drives but I know I will never use them because all the stuff I have on the tape is duplicated onto several hard disks. When USB sticks easily hold 32Gb of data which is instantly accessible and re-writeable the need to transport stuff on CD has become much less.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 08:10 | 13th Post |
richw wrote: If you have fast internet DVD in a computer is waste now, I haven't used the one in my Macbook Pro for well over a year. Until clients give you artwork and images on a DVD 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by TomOC: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 12:12 | 14th Post |
| My macbook came without a dvd drive and I groused about it... So I bought an external one for $79 - haven't used it yet (6 month after buying it) Jobs may have been right... I don't need a floppy drive either 
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 13:23 | 15th Post |
TomOC wrote:My macbook came without a dvd drive and I groused about it... So I bought an external one for $79 - haven't used it yet (6 month after buying it) You all are just a bunch of Tech Junkies! I still have some 5 1/4 inch floppies - never been used. I still think they will make a come back. I will catch up with you at some point in time.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by richw: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 14:54 | 16th Post |
Eric wrote:richw wrote:If you have fast internet DVD in a computer is waste now, I haven't used the one in my Macbook Pro for well over a year. I guess but if they couldn't give you a USB key that's where the external drive might get it's once in a blue moon run out. Like I said earlier I have put stuff on a DVD for my dad, so I have used it but it's very rare and as it's built into the MacBook all that extra weight goes everywhere all the time . Wonder if I could swap it for an SSD?
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 15:28 | 17th Post |
richw wrote:Wonder if I could swap it for an SSD? Definitely, it's a common mod. Put the OS and applications on the SSD and the data on the HDD it will start up almost instantly and run very quickly/
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 16:50 | 18th Post |
richw wrote:Eric wrote: Sure....if I can only get THEM to play along. I've just put a SSD on the wife's PC and it really flies now.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 17:57 | 19th Post |
| The new iMac offers a "fusion" storage drive. Is that the same thing as this SSD you refer to?
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by TomOC: Tue Jan 8th, 2013 18:55 | 20th Post |
Squarerigger wrote:TomOC wrote: Hang on to them... Very shortly you will be able to sell them to a museum!!!
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 02:36 | 21st Post |
richw wrote: Eric wrote: Yes the swap out for a SSD is very common. I am looking at a 512MB SSD at moment to use on my travels. Cost £275.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by richw: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 03:06 | 22nd Post |
Robert wrote:richw wrote: Is there any way to do this other than reinstall them (and if so how would I delete the previous OS?). Seriously thinking about doing this now.
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 03:17 | 23rd Post |
Squarerigger wrote:The new iMac offers a "fusion" storage drive. Is that the same thing as this SSD you refer to? Tha new Fusion drive is a very good idea, I don't have any feedback on actual use but although it's not new, I have recently discussed it with JK actually, it was previously only found on very high end computers. It combines a smallish, fast SSD (Solid State Drive) with a large HDD (Hard Disk Drive). This all happens seamlessly, the two drives appear as one to the user. The Apple firmware places the operating system, applications and dynamic files (catches etc.) on the SSD, which typically takes about 32Gb for an average system. The remaining space on the SSD is then used for data. When the SSD gets to a pre-determined capacity, say perhaps 90% during idle moments it moves less frequently used DATA from the SSD to the HDD. freeing up space on the SSD for the next chunk of data to arrive from the user. All saves of data are made to the SSD, the firmware decides which data to move on to the HDD. On a technical note the big difference between the new Apple Fusion and previous methods is that the Apple Fusion only moves complete files onto the HDD, the original idea was to only move bite size chunks, which meant that you could end up with files split across both drives. That could lead to loss of data, the Apple Fusion idea is safer in principle. The data would be easier to recover if the drive crashed. In simple terms this means you can combine very high speed with generous capacity, up to 3Tb according to the Apple store. The info I have is that if you do want to get an SSD (or Fusion) upgrade it is very much cheaper and safer to get the update from Apple at initial purchase, rather than doing an upgrade with third party SSD's yourself. On the other hand Apple RAM is a rip off for some reason. However that is generally easy to upgrade yourself although Doug pointed out that the new iMacs are much slimmer and may not be so easy to upgrade, again no personal experience yet. My only reservation is this is the first generation of fusion, Apple will have tested it extensively, it should be very safe, but often they improve these revolutionary features second and third time round. However if you feel it's what you want I think it will be a safe option and quite reasonably priced, I would go for it. I would however also have a Time Machine backup too which is very important anyway. That way if there is a glitch in the onboard drive it's a simple job to restore anything or everything. Remember if a drive is going to fail it will usually be in the first month or after three to five years at least.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 03:26 | 24th Post |
richw wrote:Robert wrote: I would wipe and re-install. Safer than moving the OS because there are many hidden files. You could use CCC (Carbon Copy Clone) or Super Duper but I would re-install, much safer. Use the Apple recovery partition, re-start the computer holding down the Option key, then select the recovery partition and specify the SSD to install on. Check this out BEFORE you try it because I haven't done it for a while and it may have changed. It should install a standard up to date OS on the drive of your choice. Check out OWC (Other World Computing) they have a good website and may sell kits with mounting brackets to adapt the MBP optical drive bay for SSD use. http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC There are of course other sites which cover this! Sorry, forgot to cover the delete OS part. De register your Adobe software and any other authenticated software then launch the computer from the recovery partition by holding down the option key and selecting the recovery partition, launch Drive Utilities from the Menu items, simply erase the drive. Your recovery partition should survive and that is what you use to download and install the new OS directly from Apple. If you don't have access to the internet you can get the OS on a memory stick but that is nailed and will become obsolete, the recovery partition should install the latest correct OS for your exact computer.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 06:02 | 25th Post |
| Thanks Robert, great explanation. Still trying to figure out options needed to get best performance out of Aperture and Photoshop Elements.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 06:27 | 26th Post |
Squarerigger wrote:Thanks Robert, great explanation. Still trying to figure out options needed to get best performance out of Aperture and Photoshop Elements. My pleasure Gary, a standard iMac will give you good performance with both, obviously the higher models will give better performance but what are you going to do with the milliseconds you save? Even the base model will be waiting for you 99.99% of the time. I accept it's nice to have a fast, responsive computer but what I am saying is it's really your budget that counts rather than having to buy a faster computer to run the software you mention. I still run Ps CS5 on my second dual processor Mac mini and I rarely have to wait for anything. Apple have many tricks up their sleeves, the way they allocate memory, the huge amount of virtual RAM the system allocates (another reason for SSD btw) the way the OS manages the multiple cores of the processors, these things all help to allow relatively modest hardware to run many big applications simultaneously and efficiently.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 07:13 | 27th Post |
| Best way is to get an SSD that comes with a USB cable that allows the drive to be attached to your computer externally. Unlike Robert I hate starting a machine from scratch as I keep finding extra stuff I need to install to get it all working. However sometimes it is better as it gives you a chance to rationale and get rid of dross. If you use something like SuperDuper! and then it makes a direct copy of your current HD. At the end of the SuperDuper! run it reboots the machine from the new superduper drive copy to prove that it works. The whole process is pretty transparent. Next stop is to open up the machine and remove the CD/DVD drive and install the SSD. You will probably need some sort of brackets as the SSD is only 2.5 inch form factor whilst the DVD writer is 5.5 inch. These should be obtainable at a non-Apple but Mac supplier. There is a place in Melbourne or Geelong that probably has these, the people are very helpful in the Geelong store as I remember from 2007/8. If you get problems then PM and I can help.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 08:00 | 28th Post |
Robert wrote:Squarerigger wrote: My current choice of iMac is the 21.5 inch model. They offer two versions in the 21.5 and I think version 2 is my choice. Has a faster processor and video card for little price increase. The rest of the machine seems fine with RAM and 1 TB drive. The only other device I will have to get is another external hard drive for time machine. My current time machine external drive is 250 GB because that's the size of my current HDD. I am planning on making the buy next month. Thanks.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 10:34 | 29th Post |
| Have fun Gary. Sounds like a great purchase.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by TomOC: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 12:37 | 30th Post |
| There is an article in this month's Macworld on fusion drives and DIY fusion drives. It's not a new concept but Apple seems to have done some great software magic to make it really be seamless to the users. I would read this article before venturing into DIY and then, as JK advised, would do the SSD as an external (no real speed loss with thunderbolt anyhow) Tom
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 13:45 | 31st Post |
TomOC wrote: There is an article in this month's Macworld on fusion drives and DIY fusion drives. It's not a new concept but Apple seems to have done some great software magic to make it really be seamless to the users. I dont know enough about the fusion drive workings and engineering but it required a SSD for short term data use (OS and frequently used data) and a HD for longer term data and application storage. Like Tom says there are options but it also depends on which machine you have to do the work on. Apple will not do it for you so it is either an Apple dealer with a good techie or a DIY job. The new Unibody Macs are less deconstructable than the older ones and the MBAir is a nightmare as is the new iMacs. Apple aint making it easier for us to fiddle!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by TomOC: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 16:46 | 32nd Post |
| I think the main difference between the do-it-yourself version and the Apple version is that Apple software selects your most heavily used files and keeps them on the SSD (it also keeps 4 GB as a buffer for files currently in use). On the other hand, the best of my knowledge the do-it-yourself version requires you to manually decide what files and apps will be on the SSD.
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Jan 9th, 2013 17:34 | 33rd Post |
| My understanding is that applications are automatically held on the SSD. According to a post by very knowledgable Apple expert I read the other day, the biggest technical innovation that Apple has brought to the feature is not fragmenting the documents. Apparently that is key to the thing being suitable for general use and the 'intelligent' choice of what to move where. The OS needs room to expand and contract, so it has space allocated for that on the SSD, also the cashes need room to work. It's a very interesting feature.
____________________ Robert. |
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