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| "Creative" CloudI've opted for the rental! | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by richw: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 04:39 | 1st Post |
| I've preordered a one year membership for 'Creative' Cloud. I currently have Lightroom 4 and CS Web Premium 5. I actually would like a couple of the packages not available in the Web version so was looking at the Master suite with an upgrade cost of just under $1600. Creative cloud will cost me $38 per week for year one, and gives me access to all the packages in the Master Suite + Lightroom 5 in the future. There are also some other features that I might like so I've given it a go. Hopefully they won't hike the price too much next year. The $38 is a discounted price that exists for all customers of a suite program back to CS3, (for Australia). From scratch it would be $63. I've thought quite hard about which option to go for, this allows me allways to stay up to date, and compared with the Master Suite option works out cheaper at this point, given that I pretty much update every other version or so. I hope this is the right choice, but I'm going to give it a go, cost wise Adobe do seem to reward early adopters, so I've taken the plunge.
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 04:57 | 2nd Post |
| Thanks for sharing Rich, Will be interesting to see how it works out. How does it work with multiple computers? can you flit about, using several computers, one at a time, or do you have to specify and stick to two allocated machines? I never seem to have Cs5 on the computer I need it on. It's such a pain to switch machines having to remove from one then clean install and authorise on another.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 08:30 | 3rd Post |
Robert wrote: Thanks for sharing Rich, Will be interesting to see how it works out.Back when I had a desktop and a laptop I had the same copy of Photoshop installed on both. This was legal - they just didn't want you to use the same copy on two computers simultaneously, and I was the only user of both computers. I can barely run one computer at a time, let alone two. I just had to make sure the two computers weren't on the same network. If they were, Photoshop would see the other copy with the same serial number and refuse to start.
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by richw: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 20:31 | 4th Post |
Robert wrote:Thanks for sharing Rich, Will be interesting to see how it works out. The idea is multi platform seemless workflow, it's Adobe's version of iCloud. It'll be interesting to see how well it works. There are a few iPad specific apps included as part of the deal.
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Apr 25th, 2012 01:27 | 5th Post |
richw wrote:The idea is multi platform seemless workflow, it's Adobe's version of iCloud. OK, so where does the software reside, do you download it on each computer you are going to use it on then it sort of 'Auto Authorises', surely the images are not downloaded each time you access an image. Either way it would appear to be very heavy on an internet connection. Especially if you have a D800! Even if I could afford it that aspect would put me right off. I only have a sub 1 Mb service which takes about 12 hrs to download 3.6Gb files. Which bit is actually kept in the 'cloud'? With iCloud the software is kept loaded on the computer and the data is kept in the iCloud. For example, Text Edit, allows you to save to a folder within your computer OR save to the iCloud. If you save to the iCloud then the data can be accessed on any (recent) Mac computer anywhere, by logging into the appropriate Apple account.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Wed Apr 25th, 2012 08:58 | 6th Post |
| Keep us updated about how you find the service Rich. I dont think I am ready for that paradigm yet. 
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Wed Apr 25th, 2012 11:51 | 7th Post |
Robert wrote: OK, so where does the software reside, do you download it on each computer you are going to use it on then it sort of 'Auto Authorises', surely the images are not downloaded each time you access an image.It's probably like the way we run heavy-duty engineering analysis software where I work - the software and all your personal files (photos) reside on your personal computer. The software asks a license server over the internet if you have a current license to use the software. If you do, it runs just fine. If not, it tells you to pay up if you want to go any further. So, the only data being transferred over the internet is your serial number and a yes/no reply.
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Apr 25th, 2012 12:18 | 8th Post |
| Thanks Dave, so that really just makes it a variation of the current verification process. Sod all to do with 'Cloud' computing, which Adobe bill it as, another con. I can see the reasoning behind it, it's just like tool or plant hire, why tie up capital in specialised tools or equipment you only use occasionally. it's up to the individual to decide if that method is more viable than an outright licence purchase. There is also the upgrade cost to take into account.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by richw: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 02:18 | 9th Post |
| I think Dave is correct, but they also offer online storage - same as iCloud, which can be used for multiple users collaborating on Docs as well as multi platform access, as well as a web hosting service as part of this.
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| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 02:38 | 10th Post |
richw wrote:I think Dave is correct, but they also offer online storage - same as iCloud, which can be used for multiple users collaborating on Docs as well as multi platform access, as well as a web hosting service as part of this. Ok, so the Cloud hosting is optional, and the software resides on the client computer. That makes it workable but fails in the basic premiss of Cloud computing that all data is available from anywhere. That would appear to be limited by connectivity rather than the software. Thanks for the clarification.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 03:26 | 11th Post |
Dave Groen wrote:Robert wrote:OK, so where does the software reside, do you download it on each computer you are going to use it on then it sort of 'Auto Authorises', surely the images are not downloaded each time you access an image.It's probably like the way we run heavy-duty engineering analysis software where I work - the software and all your personal files (photos) reside on your personal computer. The software asks a license server over the internet if you have a current license to use the software. If you do, it runs just fine. If not, it tells you to pay up if you want to go any further. So, the only data being transferred over the internet is your serial number and a yes/no reply. That seems very much like I would expect it to work but Adobe still forget that the whole world is not USA with high speed broadband being ubiquitous. I think cloud computing is fine when we all have 20 MB connectivity, somewhere around 2050.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 03:42 | 12th Post |
| Well I am supposed to be getting 8Mb by June and 20Mb by Christmas, we will see... They have laid the fibre so it's just a matter of hooking it up I am told. But even then downloading large TIFF's from the cloud will not be trivial, it won't be like working on a fast local network with Gigabyte connectivity.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 03:51 | 13th Post |
| I dream of 4MB here !
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 04:14 | 14th Post |
jk wrote:I dream of 4MB here !  Have you considered satellite? Now they have launched the most recent one they are reasonably competitive, they are supposed to be launching another this year I think, that should improve things even more...
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 04:33 | 15th Post |
| I have considered running my own fibre optic!!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 04:59 | 16th Post |
| Well they are here; there is a community scheme in the Trough of Bowland to install their own. That is only a few miles from here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16196863
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by richw: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 05:37 | 17th Post |
| Well the Australian Government is installing a 'National Broad Band' network of fibre for everyone. I'm told the speed will be at 1000MB. Apparently the new LTE technology that will be in the newer phones will give about 300Mb so those speeds are not far away for many. The latest iPad can apparently use 4G speeds, but unfortunately one of the two frequencies they use is the same as domestic TV here and won't be available for use till they switch off the the analogue TV in 2015, then we should see wide use of 4G in Aus.
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| Posted by richw: Thu May 3rd, 2012 06:54 | 18th Post |
| Scott Kelby did a good Q&A on Creative cloud: Here
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| Posted by TomOC: Thu May 3rd, 2012 11:08 | 19th Post |
| Rich- We'll have to call you Capt Kirk, for going where no man has gone before. I so mistrust Adobe that I assume there are some big gotcha problems with the contract. Hope I'm wrong but the one thing I know is they didn't promote that system for our benefit, but for theirs. Not trying to rain on your parade - I really hope it works, but I'm glad not to be the one to trial it. Please keep us informed of your issues and / or lack of them. This may well be the future of all software, for all I know  Cheers, Tom
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by jk: Thu May 3rd, 2012 15:35 | 20th Post |
TomOC wrote: Rich- We'll have to call you Capt Kirk, for going where no man has gone before. I so mistrust Adobe that I assume there are some big gotcha problems with the contract. Hope I'm wrong but the one thing I know is they didn't promote that system for our benefit, but for theirs. Not trying to rain on your parade - I really hope it works, but I'm glad not to be the one to trial it. Please keep us informed of your issues and / or lack of them. This may well be the future of all software, for all I knowI agree but being a cynic the only people I can see benefiting from this is Adobe as it will help manage the problem of pirate copies of PhotoShop. I think there are better ways of reducing piracy. One of them is to reduce prices and sell in volume with the option of with/without support.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by richw: Sat May 5th, 2012 00:26 | 21st Post |
| I'm not sure that the full version of PS is ever going to work as a volume product though. To a degree this is what they have done with Elements.
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| Posted by KirkP: Thu May 10th, 2012 23:07 | 22nd Post |
Robert wrote: Thanks Dave, so that really just makes it a variation of the current verification process. Sod all to do with 'Cloud' computing, which Adobe bill it as, another con.Agreed, sod all cons. First I have to jump through multiple hoops with Photoshop CS5, because of software piracy, and Adobe now treats all it's end users as potential pirates. Now, mark my words, I'll bet you that CS7 will require a check with Adobe servers before you are allowed access to your own files. I know for a fact that Adobe apps attempt to connect to the internet since CS4 (maybe earlier) because my firewall started to report the attempts. I'd begun to teach myself Gimp with a Photoshop-like interface several years ago, and with the release of CS6 and Cloud crap, I'll not be sending Adobe my credit card for this new version. It's not my fault their lousy upgrades from CS2 to CS5 never delivered on their overhyped new abilities and consequently their stock price plummeted. It's also not my fault that they have to divide their development teams into so many for Photoshop, so many for Illustrator, and so on, thereby allowing a mass release of ALL Creative Suite components at the same instant in time. These are business decisions made by Adobe, not me, and I do not consider their stock price to be my problem. We all know this means that once Adobe has trained the graphic arts industry into paying every year for their subscription, subscription will be the only method to upgrade to future major releases, regardless of how many actual upgrades or updates are released. Sure, Adobe is on top. But, like Robert and Tom, Adobe won't get another dime from me, I cannot justify a tiny business with a major business expense. I'm going back to hobby photography, and when I do buy a new camera, it will be used only with the Gimp. It is not my policy to support business models that were designed with the 1990s in mind, then found to be faulty. I've read several articles on the internet over the past few hours stating that Adobe's stock price varies with each major upgrade of the Creative Suite release, since CS1. I don't wish them ill, but I sure predict that their stock price will be taking a hit in 2012. I'm so very glad I paid for an actual disc of every version of Photoshop I ever bought, including the 64 bit version of CS5. In ten years, I'll still be able to work on my D200 files, including PSD files I save during edits, and Adobe STILL cannot charge me for that privilege in 2022. So long Adobe, it was all good and fun while it lasted. Clearly, you intend for your end users to pay for upgrades that do nothing, while promising everything. I'll start donating to open source software that promises little but delivers far more than nothing. If ya'll can't tell, I'm a bit angry at the news. Sorry if I broke any rules on the new forum, feel free to delete this. Sure, I could buy an upgrade disc... but that only delays the inevitable.
____________________ When you were born, you cried and the whole world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the whole world cries and you rejoice. |
| Posted by Robert: Fri May 11th, 2012 02:35 | 23rd Post |
| Well at least you got it off your chest Kirk. I think since you didn't use any asterisks* you will be fine. It was polite and not inflammatory. Adobe have been using the call home for the Cs suit since at least Cs2 according to Little Snitch. I haven't studied the relative costs but to my mind the 'Cloud' model will only be beneficial to the user if it's used as a way of only using the software for short periods for specific projects. Otherwise you may be suffering a premium for rental and not coming up with the cash 'up front' as you do with a purchase. In my case I have hardly used Cs5 for best part of a year. Had I been paying rental during that time I would need certifying. But because it's bought and paid for it simply sits and waits for me at no additional cost. I see no need to upgrade to Cs6, Cs5 does all I need and more. I do however wonder what would (will?) happen if (when?) Adobe goes under. What will happen to the authorisation process if the Adobe servers are turned off... Those who have paid for the licence should be able to continue using the software they have paid for no matter what happens to Adobe. Size is no insulator from collapse. Look at Kodak. A bad business model has only one end. After all, anyone fortunate enough to own a DeLorian car can still use it despite DeLorian (DMC) having gone bust years ago. That might not be the case with the Adobe Cs software. To me, that is a greater concern. *While checking the spelling of asterisk I have discovered the likely reason why it's so-called... It resembles an aster (daisy) flower which derives from the greek for small star (ie. asteroid). I often wondered.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Fri May 11th, 2012 06:07 | 24th Post |
| One thing that has worried me from day one with CS2 and Activation. What happens if Adobe decide that Activation is not for them any more. They pull the plug on their activation servers and then the old software cant be installed or work any more!!! Because over time everyone will change hardware they think that they need to treat us all as pirates. Well since I have the know how to do it all my internet outbound activity is controlled so there are no Adobe signals going out and the need for activation is also 'aahem!' controlled. As soon as I can get GIMP working well for me then I will stop using Adobe Photoshop. That means I need to convert all my Actions unfortunately and I also need to learn GIMP. Neither are insurmountable but just extra pain in the move.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by KirkP: Fri May 11th, 2012 15:14 | 25th Post |
| Adobe really screwed the pooch with this whole idea. For pros, this makes no sense, unless you're buying the entire CS suite of products. For Photoshop CS6 alone, it's $20 US for a US IP address (not sure what it costs in the UK) and updates are free til the next version, CS7. $240 a year for the Cloud, two years is $480. Upgrade from CS5 is $199, again not entire sure how much more UK upgrade price is, but if past comments on the old forum are any indication, UK or Spanish prices will be 20% more. And if you upgrade normally, from CS3, 4 or 5, you still get the x.5 update like they did with CS5.5, for free. I'm not seeing any benefit for anyone, except Adobe. $200 vs almost $500 ?????? And that assumes they release CS7 at two years from now, which was stated as the new product cycle when CS5 came out. I have no confidence that will remain at two years. Lastly, a new issue just popped up today, two critical vulnerabilities in Photoshop CS5.5, along with vulnerabilities in Illustrator and Flash Pro. Adobe won't be issuing a bug fix for CS5.5, you have to pay for the upgrade to CS6. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9227099/Adobe_Pay_upgrade_price_to_patch_critical_bugs http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/photoshop-illustrator-users-must-pay-for-critical-security-updates/12113 Ok, so maybe Photoshop isn't the first choice of hackers trying to access your computer, but if it exists, and you have to pay for an upgrade, it stands to reason there will be people who won't pay, and thus remain vulnerable. Therefore, someone will figure out how to exploit these vulnerabilities. Thanks, Adobe, for confirming my already low opinion of your business acumen (greed).
____________________ When you were born, you cried and the whole world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the whole world cries and you rejoice. |
| Posted by richw: Sat May 12th, 2012 07:46 | 26th Post |
| You're pricing only works if you're only interested in Photoshop - and then the cloud option does not make sense - just buy a photoshop license - or don't no one is forcing you. I actually believe they have the right to price it however they wish, if they get it wrong people will vote with their feet and the business will go under. The argument that it should be cheaper and thereby sell more volume and suffer less piracy has merit, but it is their business to manage and if they get it wrong it is their shareholders that will pay the price. They do employ a lot of people and their EBIT is not excessive - if you want to talk greed there are far more deserving targets out there (Wall Street anyone?) For me, I am paying $32 per month and for that I get all shown below, I currently use 2 of them every week, and 3 others fairly often. I look forward to learning how to use some of the others. Attachment: Adobe Programs.jpg (Downloaded 10 times)
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| Posted by KirkP: Sat May 12th, 2012 13:20 | 27th Post |
| And that's fine, Rich, if it works for you. I agree, Adobe is not forcing me to upgrade, but I do believe they will force me into the Cloud model with the next version upgrade to CS7, it just makes sense that this is where they are headed. And that isn't my cup of tea. Actually, I had little problem paying $200 to upgrade for the past three versions of CS3, CS4 and CS5. My wife wasn't too happy at the cost, but I pointed out that I made much more money than $200 from real estate photos, per year. A tool is worth what you use it for, not what you pay for it... and Photoshop is very definitely the best tool. But I also prefer not to be treated like a thief, and I prefer not to support a business model that costs me MORE money while not giving me something in return. You got the entire suite, and I envy you somewhat for the power it places in your hands. Even more important, I envy you the fun of doing MORE fun stuff ! Adobe makes very good tools, and certainly, Photoshop is the gold standard for pro photographers. I just don't see this Cloud solution as a good idea for their bottom line, even though I acknowledge that they know far more about it than I do, and most likely they WILL end up making more money. If I were a full-on pro photographer, the whole suite might make more sense, video is becoming very important in real estate. I might even end up eating my words, if Adobe continues to allow people to upgrade the simple way to new versions of Photoshop. I'm still a bit peeved about them refusing to issue a fix for these new exploit possibilities, but that's not really related to the Cloud model. Cloud computing has a place in the world, certainly, with collaboration between multiple authors or content creators. So far, I have not seen this being promoted as such, by Adobe. In ten years, who knows? Maybe by that point, Adobe will have integrated the entire CS suite into a single 50GB (installed) application. All I do is still photography, though I may dabble in video with a new camera, it'll be as a complete amateur. As for greed... sure, Wall Street and bankers worldwide are far better targets of contempt. But, I don't actually have much to do with them, excepting the fallout of their fraudulent practices. Had Adobe decided to charge $5 a month for Photoshop alone, on a discount for upgrading from a previous version and a two year prepaid subscription, it would cost $120, and I could see millions of hobbyist Photoshop users joining up, saving 80 bucks. But that's a pipe dream, at this point. Adobe has the right to price their products any way they want to, I agree. My question is, why price the Cloud version to cost $480 over two years, vs the $200 a simple upgrade would cost? There must be very few people like me, who use only Photoshop, and none of the other pro apps in the Creative Suite. Conversely, there must be a LOT of people like you, who want access to the whole shebang, and Adobe is obviously aware of it. I think their decisions will cost them money and users of Photoshop alone, but quite possibly they'll make that money back, and garner more users, with the whole Suite users. Looking back, I was pretty unhappy with a couple of the version changes that Adobe made, where they didn't deliver on the promises and the hype they generated. Still, I wanted a couple of new features, and just resigned myself to the reality of software marketing. I don't fault you one bit for signing up for the Cloud model, it does make sense if you use several parts of the Creative Suite. I just posted in another thread, I may actually go ahead and buy the upgrade to CS6, since Gimp is free, but I sure am going to continue to teach myself Gimp, in preparation for the future world of Adobe upgrades that I believe will be forced on their users. Paying $480 for Photoshop alone, with dubious promises of updates, fixes and new tools, more than double the cost of the normal upgrade? Not likely.
____________________ When you were born, you cried and the whole world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the whole world cries and you rejoice. |
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