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| D4 Evaluations | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by Ed Matusik: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 13:52 | 1st Post |
| Just out of curiosity, I haven't seen much on either forum about the pros and cons of the new D4. The D800 seems to have taken over the most adored category from the D3/D3s, but nobody is mentioning personal experiences and likes or dislikes with what Nikon trumpets as the flagship of the fleet? - EdM.
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| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 14:15 | 2nd Post |
| Well I do know of people who have the D4 and also the D800. If you look at the two cameras there is a significant price difference. This probably reflects as much in the number of people who will invest in a top of the range camera versus the cheaper but also potentially just as good or better camera. Well Nikon dont often get stuff very wrong but could this be one such situation. If the D4 had had 24MP then I would be more interested the D4 rather than a D800. Now comes the evil thought! Is there a D4S waiting in the wings for a release in 2013. If that is the case will it be a 36MP camera as well?
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| Posted by Ed Matusik: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 14:29 | 3rd Post |
| Yes, it seems strange that nikon would slit its own throat by introducing a better, but lower priced camera than its so-called top model. - EdM
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| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 16:14 | 4th Post |
Ed Matusik wrote: Yes, it seems strange that nikon would slit its own throat by introducing a better, but lower priced camera than its so-called top model. - EdMThat is my thought but the rumour mill always indicated that the Nikon D4 was a 36/48MP camera. I think that this camera exists and is probably still in testing!! Late 2012/2013 will see if there is any validity in my speculation.
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| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 16:27 | 5th Post |
| Perhaps that will be the D4X?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 16:34 | 6th Post |
| Trouble is they did this to some extent with the D3 by adding the D700. 95% of the performance for a third of the price! If they did introduce a D4X I just don't know what else it would bring to the party?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 16:36 | 7th Post |
| Higher resolution, lower speed, like all the single figure X's?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Ed Matusik: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 18:26 | 8th Post |
| If, as everyone speculates here, there will be a camera capable of the type of resolution presently in the D800, and with the high ISO and burst rates of the D3's/D4, then how would you feel if you had bought the current D4 for around $6,000 and had the rug pulled out from under you with a new model only 1 or 2 years after its introduction? Pretty sleazy business tactics. Maybe Canon will gain a lot of new customers- EdM
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| Posted by Robert: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 01:46 | 9th Post |
| I think that anybody spending $6,000 on a D4 unless they are a compete dumbo will have their eyes wide open to exactly what they are doing. Anybody with that commitment will be keenly aware of what they are buying and that as is Nikons usual practice that they will probably release a more refined D4S possibly followed by a high res D4X. The D4, and any possible D4X will be completely different tools just as the D3 and D3X are. Different tools for different jobs. The target customer for the D4 does not need or want ultra high definition giant images.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 02:34 | 10th Post |
Robert wrote:Perhaps that will be the D4X?That is what I meant when I said D3S. A D4X is exactly what I expect to see in 2013. Exactly how many megapixels it will have depends on the cost of the CCD and the market place. The current DSLRs are now hitting into medium format territory. However that said Phase One have released an IQ180 back that has 80MP. It produces wonderful images.
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| Posted by Iain: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 04:20 | 11th Post |
| The D4 is aimed at a different market, it's a press/sports camera built tough and fast shooting. The d800, while it will do sports etc, it is in my opinion aimed at studio/landscape photographers.
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| Posted by jk: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 05:35 | 12th Post |
| Yes I think that is right Iain. It's another reason why I think that a D4X/S will arrive next year.
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| Posted by Constable: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 05:57 | 13th Post |
| Jonathon I don't like to disagree, but there is a definite role for the D4 in macro work. The object of getting the maximum number of pixels on target and as great a depth of field as possible make the high ISO capacity and higher pixel density than the D3s very attractive. Ed
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| Posted by Eric: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 08:03 | 14th Post |
Constable wrote:Jonathon Surely thats more of an arguement forthe D800? The smaller sensor giving greater dof, yet 34mp and high ISP performance?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 08:18 | 15th Post |
Eric wrote:Surely thats more of an arguement forthe D800? The smaller sensor giving greater dof, yet 34mp and high ISP performance? I thought the D800 has an FX (Full frame) sensor?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 08:42 | 16th Post |
Robert wrote:Eric wrote: Silly me....getting D400 fever. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Constable: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 08:47 | 17th Post |
| And the D800 does not look to have the high ISO (dunno ... they don't seem to exist in Switzerland yet) Ed
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| Posted by jk: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 09:07 | 18th Post |
| D800 seem to be in short supply. I guess they are making a batch of D800E units for the launch before starting the next batch of D800 units. I hear they have also been some colour issues with the way the TFT screen shows the colour of the image on replay. I guess this will be a firmware fix. Nikon however say this. http://nikonrumors.com/2012/04/21/nikon-claims-that-the-greenish-d4d800-lcd-screen-is-more-accurate-than-the-d3sd700.aspx/
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| Posted by Eric: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 09:08 | 19th Post |
Constable wrote:And the D800 does not look to have the high ISO (dunno ... they don't seem to exist in Switzerland yet) Didn't realise it was so dark in Swizerland. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Constable: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 10:52 | 20th Post |
| It isn't like Costa del Norwich! View out of my office window now - and a test on a beetle in the garden suggested ISO 1600 f8 1/60 with the 200 macro! Attachment: DSC_3151.jpg (Downloaded 44 times)
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| Posted by Ed Matusik: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 11:45 | 21st Post |
| According to one evaluation, the biggest difference between the D4 and the D3s is color rendering and saturation. Other than that, the evaluator doesn't feel that the D4 gives anything better than the D3's. If you go to one of the nikon sites (I used nikonusa) and do a comparison between the D4 and the D800, there is little the D4 has over the D800 (total pixel count excluded) except for exceptionally high ISO for the D4, burst rate differences, and longer battery life (i.e., the D4 battery last longer).
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| Posted by Eric: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 12:34 | 22nd Post |
Constable wrote:It isn't like Costa del Norwich! Blimey. Hope the mountains brighten a bit more for me at the end of May! It's been raining, hailing and bright sunshine all at the sometime here today!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 15:37 | 23rd Post |
Constable wrote:JonathonI dont think we are in disagreement. I think that there is a definite role for the D4 in press and reportage but the extra pixels between 12 and 16 are not really significant but maybe they are?. I dont really do macro, I like micro but donthave the equipment for it. EMs are too expensive! The D3X has more pixels than the D4. Is that not better for macro? The D4X would be better surely for macro if it had 36-48MP ? The D400 is meant to be 24MP, that is higher pixel density on a DX format than the D800 with 36MP on FX format.
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| Posted by jk: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 16:40 | 24th Post |
Constable wrote: It isn't like Costa del Norwich!Calm before the storm. I remember getting caught in the office in Basle by a rainstorm in May. The sky went black in the afternoon about 3pm and I was stuck there until about 7pm while it bucketed with rain.  Happy days!
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| Posted by Constable: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 11:35 | 25th Post |
| I think I probably was suffering from a pre-senior moment and was not clear in what I was trying to say! I hsten to add, that this is geared entirely to my way of working. Which means, for small insects (bugs, beetles, grasshoppers etc., none of your gaudy popinjay butterflies!). Consequence: the target does not always fill the frame and so cropping is usually the name of the game. This means the higher the pixel count the better. Yes of course the D3X is better if everything else is ideal (see later!). Also working in the wild which means a lot of the time I am working handheld without tripod or monopod. Consequence: Shutter speed needs to be as high as possible to freeze motion and operator incompetence. To get a decent depth of field I am often working at f16 or worse! Consequence: less light and a completely against what the high shutter speed dictates. Chitin is quite shiny and ring-flashes are a p.i.t.a. Consequence: flashes give (i) highlights and (ii) frighten the hell out of the beasties so that you only have one chance. Therefore, a high resolution camera with a noise-free, high ISO capability is needed. The D3X is IMHO the winner up to ISO 600, but I don't really like going much above ISO 800. This is the basis for the D4 as the best compromise candidate. When I am ankle deep in photons, the D3X is the tool of choice. The rest of the time (particularly with the Nikkor 200 f4) the D4 is an excellent solution. The rider is that I do not want or need video. Hope this clarifies Ed
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| Posted by jk: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 13:27 | 26th Post |
| Now I'm with you and I also now understand why you went for a D7000. I did wonder but never asked. With your rationale the purchase of a D4 makes good sense. Have you had a test with the D800 or are they as rare in Switzerland as everywhere else.
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| Posted by Constable: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 14:06 | 27th Post |
| Hen's teeth!!
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| Posted by jk: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 14:10 | 28th Post |
| Let's hope that they grow some by mid summer.
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| Posted by Eric: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 15:10 | 29th Post |
Constable wrote:I think I probably was suffering from a pre-senior moment and was not clear in what I was trying to say! All very logical and eloquently explained. The complex reasoning behind choice of equipment is often missed. In fact, for some time I have wondered if a critical selection chart would help some of the forum posters. By breaking down the types of photography (sport, wildlife, landscape, macro etc) and developing a matrix covering the ideal lenses (focal length, fstop, price etc) and similarly camera bodies (focus speed, sensor pixels, weatherproofing, features etc) perhaps we could make the selection process more obvious?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 15:19 | 30th Post |
| What and do away with all these enthralling threads?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 16:04 | 31st Post |
| Pareto analysis, de Bono's lateral thinking, Root cause analysis, fishbone analysis, ..... Oh dear I fear all those management techniques are coming home to haunt me!
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| Posted by Eric: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 16:08 | 32nd Post |
jk wrote:Pareto analysis, de Bono's lateral thinking, Root cause analysis, fishbone analysis, ..... Oh dear I fear all those management techniques are coming home to haunt me! I've also started to twitch at the thought of them. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 16:10 | 33rd Post |
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 16:27 | 34th Post |
| Well I still do relative scoring in a spreadsheet if I cant make what I deem to be a outright winner analysis. When you are forced to look at individual items of value then sometimes it crystalises thoughts. I havent actually purchased a Nikon V1 even though I have been near to bidding on one in eBay several times as I feel it really isnt right for me. That doesnt meant it doesnt have a place just that it isnt what I need or want.
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| Posted by Constable: Mon Apr 30th, 2012 14:50 | 35th Post |
| I'm not sure if it is allowed to post in a thread, but I think this illustrates my point. D4, Sigma 180, ISO 400, handheld, natural (overcast) lighting. Ed Attachment: D41_2061.jpg (Downloaded 32 times)
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Apr 30th, 2012 15:13 | 36th Post |
| A spectacular image Ed. From a technical point of view it would be interesting to see it larger but I guess that's hard with an uploadable image. What is the name of the insect? The shading on the wings is interesting.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Constable: Mon Apr 30th, 2012 15:24 | 37th Post |
| It is a mayfly ... Lifespan 24 hours. Yes, the NEF is significantly better.almost noise free after very gentle treatment in LR4. I put an example at ISO 1600 over in the macro forum on Nikonians. Ed
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| Posted by Constable: Mon Apr 30th, 2012 15:25 | 38th Post |
| And as for the wings ... Think Lalique glass and you won't be far off. Ed
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Apr 30th, 2012 15:29 | 39th Post |
| Translucency incredibly hard to capture well. Very nice, thanks for sharing.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Tue May 1st, 2012 03:46 | 40th Post |
| Lovely image! Those wings are wonderful in their detail. I hate to think how well rendered these would be on a D800. So you have the Sigma 150 and the Nikon 180 lenses? How do they compare in every day and macro use ? Did you use an extension tube for the shot above or is it a crop?
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| Posted by Iain: Wed May 2nd, 2012 06:32 | 41st Post |
| A nice image there Ed.
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| Posted by Ralph G Speer: Wed May 2nd, 2012 08:02 | 42nd Post |
| A nice image Ed. I like your thoughts. Ralph
____________________ Ralph G Speer ________________________ RGSpeer |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Wed May 2nd, 2012 08:02 | 43rd Post |
| Very nice photo of a mayfly Ed, could you please tell me what shutter speed you were using. Thanks
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Constable: Tue May 8th, 2012 06:31 | 44th Post |
| Hi Jonathon I like the 180, but will upgrade to the 180 2.8 as soon as it is available. The main reason being that it has got the Sigma coating virus .. the plastic coating is peeling off and every time I use it I look like an anemic leopard. More to the point, the bare metal is now exposed to the elements. No tubes ... too much like hard work if you are hand-holding. The shot is cropped but not actually that much Ed
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| Posted by jk: Tue May 8th, 2012 09:21 | 45th Post |
Constable wrote: Hi JonathonIt's interesting that you say that the Sigma coating virus is effecting your 180. When I used to work in the labs I had a similar problem in that my Sigma lenses used to 'depaint' very often. It seemed to stop after I left the labs. I was never sure if it wasnt the fact that my skin was absorbing reactive chemicals from the lab air and then these were excreted/concentrated in the sweat on my hands. Could never prove it but it was a thought I had.
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| Posted by Constable: Tue May 8th, 2012 11:54 | 46th Post |
| OK that fits with my initial thought that it was to do with the ****tail of sun-block and insect repellent!
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| Posted by jk: Wed May 9th, 2012 03:16 | 47th Post |
Constable wrote: OK that fits with my initial thought that it was to do with the ****tail of sun-block and insect repellent!That is like a Friedel Crafts reaction isnt it. Only gold and platinum wont react with that mix. Surely you want the bugs to come to you not repel them !!
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| Posted by Constable: Wed May 9th, 2012 04:12 | 48th Post |
Only the non-bitey ones! I've already had treatment from reacting positive to tests for Lyme disease from a couple of ticks that I didn't notice until too late. Ed
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| Posted by Robert: Wed May 9th, 2012 06:37 | 49th Post |
| Ouch, sorry to hear that Ed, seems to be an occupational hazard, Bjorn R¸rslett got Lyme disease pretty badly photographing in the wilds.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Wed May 9th, 2012 08:46 | 50th Post |
| Yes we have to watch out for ticks here in Spain when we walk the dogs, as of course they can also bring them home.
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| Posted by Ralph G Speer: Tue Jun 12th, 2012 19:19 | 51st Post |
| I got the D4 a couple of weeks ago. Trying it out with a Nikon 200 2.8 at f2.8. and like it very much. Got this with it. Ralph Attachment: Pink-Web.jpg (Downloaded 15 times)
____________________ Ralph G Speer ________________________ RGSpeer |
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